Originally Posted by Sofos
except jack is the strongest of all the agents, not some dumb tutorial boss
except jack is the strongest of all the agents, not some dumb tutorial boss
Heh, just posted the same analogy in the Missed Obvious Things threadI wonder what character might actually call himself Bilious Slick
However, it needs to be some previous Jack alter ego, since BQ is already hatin' on frogs in the Trolls' universe.
Though, looks like Jack tries to do it in every universe...
Well, I dunno... it looks quite good on her(And if he IS also Lord English, then recruiting Snowman and making her dress in that Midnight Crew-esque getup would be the perfect revenge for those damn outfits.)
That's why I like my *crazy* theory betterexcept jack is the strongest of all the agents, not some dumb tutorial boss
It works out fine, however, if Jackspers Noirlecrow is Bilious Slick is Lord English, since Lord English is explicitly a demon with time powers who has used them to arrange his summoning by manipulating events at various points in the timeline, likely making his disgusting frog-like presence an universal constant affecting all the sessions from the very first to the very last.However, it needs to be some previous Jack alter ego, since BQ is already hatin' on frogs in the Trolls' universe.
Whoa, crazy thought. What if Jade prototypes her frog temple head before entering the incipisphere, and then prototypes a second time WITH JACK NOIR???
The result could be Bilious Slick, who through time shenanigans is the godlike being hated by the Black Queen and is the cause of all the frog temples throughout all versions of SBURB.
Last edited by darkTail; 07-30-2010 at 05:21 AM.
I wonder what the hell will happen to Jack Noir if he is prototyped with Jack Noir (I assume you mean she'll somehow prototype with Spades Slick?).
No, I meant the current Jack Noir, black usurper extraordinaire. I could imagine a scenario where Jack comes to attack Jade, and John just click-tosses him into the frogsprite.
...Unless you can't prototype anymore after entering the incipisphere, or there's a confirmed game rule that says enemies can't be used for prototyping, in which case that wouldn't work.
You definitely can prototype after entering the Incipisphere; John has done so (to create Nannaquin), and Dave has done so in two different timelines (to create Calsprite and Davesprite, respectively).
I don't know if John would be able to click-toss Jackspers Noirlecrow; he may fall under the catagory of things that a server can't directly interact with (I'd assume that the game wouldn't allow someone's server to simply drop a safe on major, named NPCs). However, that might not rule out Jade herself somehow maneuvering or tricking Jack into the sprite.
Maybe FLUTHULU will be released from his black realm.
Last edited by PaulPower; 07-30-2010 at 08:15 AM.
Wait a minute. If you combine a knowledge of anthropomorphic fauna (Jade) with extreme plush (Dave), add comedy (John) and the skills of a threadmistress (knitting and marionetting) with this Frog God....
OH SHI--Wait a minute. If you combine a knowledge of anthropomorphic fauna (Jade) with extreme plush (Dave), add comedy (John) and the skills of a threadmistress (knitting and marionetting) with this Frog God....
I get what you're saying, but incidentally at this point a Fluthlu summoning would be completely mundane. I half expect Dream Rose to summon all the gods (ALL OF THEM) to Derse for an audience/tea party with the Prince of the Moon at some point.
I don't know if that would be even feasible, since e.g. Oglogoth seems to be roughly the size of a planetI half expect Dream Rose to summon all the gods (ALL OF THEM) to Derse
I don't believe we have any accurate comparison material, though. What we do know is that Fluthlu can certainly fit in a city.
Or they can just go through windows again.
Why is it when I think of a queen detesting a frog, I immediately think of the "Princess and the Frog" fairy tale?
You can get a rough idea of their size from Rose's Grimiore.
Skaia is (or seems to be) less than 3 miles in diameter, so the horrorterrors most likely make up the majority of matter in the incipisphere.
To be fair Garland was the strongest enemy in the area you were stuck in.
And calling him a tutorial is giving him too much credit.
The thing with vague comparisons like these is that they can be made to fit by simple omission. For example, Compare Jack and FF6's Kefka. Both are under-agents of a political monarch, one an archagent of a queen and the other a general of an emperor. Both wear ridiculous jester hats (though one with more satisfaction than the other). Both begin their careers as a high-ranking aid to their superior while secretly subverting and manipulating others to possibly warp things to their benefit. Both eventually kill their sovereign in a surprise confrontation by means of a secret power. Both consequently go on killing sprees and destroy most of the world, which includes the crashing of a giant landmass onto the planet below (floating continent vs. Prospit).
All this fits, because it omits everything that makes them different, like personality, motives, and general world setting. But that's not the point. The point is that two dissimilar characters can be made to seem similar by comparing traits out of context, and that's where the supposed fun is.
And since this is the IDE/Theory thread...
IDE/Theory: The reason the Black Queen hates Bilious Slick is because he told her he was a prince and needed her kiss to turn back to normal, and she doesn't like having been so embarrassingly tricked.
Wait, I didn't say Jack and Garland are the same person!The thing with vague comparisons like these is that they can be made to fit by simple omission.
Of course Jack is different - it's Andrew Hussie's story, not Hironobu Sakaguchi's!
Someone just pointed that Jack was like a "tutorial boss" who unexpectedly became a "final boss" in the Chums' session, and I noted the similarity.
Btw, yeah, he has some Kefka-esque traits to himself
Anyways, I still like my Garland=Dad theory better
Was this Black Pri-- Queen from New Orleans, by any chance?IDE/Theory: The reason the Black Queen hates Bilious Slick is because he told her he was a prince and needed her kiss to turn back to normal, and she doesn't like having been so embarrassingly tricked.
Been thinking some more about the awakenings.
With Dave, it seems like the reason he was "awake all along" might (and this is a wild stab in the dark) be that he had the same thing that happened to John happen to him early (like a year ago or maybe when he was the same age as Jade when she received John's present). i.e. he thought his Bro's puppet obsession was lame, until he somehow discovered that Bro was being ironic all along, and this revelation blew his mind, leading to the irony-loving, Derse-awake Dave we knew from the start. But Bro wasn't done with him and so decided to ratchet it up a bit as of the time of the comic by getting progressively creepier and more ambiguous puppets, to trigger another freak-out and either elevate Dave to a new level of irony or show him some side of things he hadn't considered in his single-minded obsession with it.
I'm kind of reminded of Andrew's two satirical articles about being funny on the Internet, if you've read those.
http://www.teamspecialolympics.com/articles.php?id=6026
http://www.teamspecialolympics.com/a...s.php?id=13419
I'm not implying any sort of connection (though Equius' art collection was featured on the same site and there's also an article about how kings are stupid, so...), but it clearly reveals familiarity with the concept.I think we are long past due for another session. Now that you’ve no doubt mastered the important skills of mentioning ninjas and calling things gay, and your audience has been rendered helpless by laughter, it’s time to take a step back. There are many more hidden bells on this luxuriant coat, and if you dare to wear it as you dance, you should know which ones to jingle.
I can just hear you now: “That sounds gay.” Excellent, pupil, for you are an absorbent sponge. But I’m afraid, as a master must always keep the ego of the apprentice in check, I must reply: “Did some kind of ninja use you as a pair of nunchaku when you were a baby??”
Now that you are feeling the shame of a thousand bedwetting children, you are ripe to receive wisdom.
As for Jade, I think she's due for an eventual flashback to when she first woke up, which may or may not also be a flashback to when Grandpa returned from the Medium (and presumably died shortly thereafter). I think given her title this might also be somehow connected to her FORTUNE TELLING KNICKKNACKS, which she stopped using at some point, though that was probably because she discovered Skaia which provided a far superior method of prognostication. The flashback will also be important because I'm pretty sure she's going to have to try and use the white cueball again now that her dreamself is dead, especially if Vriska explains to her how it works.
Did you get the size of Skaia from my map, or did you derive it independently? Someone doing the latter would re-assure me that my calculations are correct.
In Their Native Art Style updated on Tuesday 2010-08-31 || It seems someone made an ITNAS Facebook page.
Theory: The Snowman (a.k.a. the Black Queen) gained her powers via an ~ATH code that tied the life of the universe to her own life. It makes sense, considering that's the crux of how ~ATH works
Quite an interesting theory!Been thinking some more about the awakenings.
And Andrew's texts seem to fit into the Homestuckverse so nicely (especially regarding the Trolls)
But... remember that Dave had wall scribbles of his own (Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff portraits) that he acknowledged only after being awakened by Dream Rose!
Turns out Dream Dave was awake, but wasn't awake enough to see his scribbles!
Wonder what that means.
You mean, Witch = prognostication?I think given her title this might also be somehow connected to her FORTUNE TELLING KNICKKNACKS, which she stopped using at some point, though that was probably because she discovered Skaia which provided a far superior method of prognostication.
Or you mean her nickname, gardenGnostic?
Btw, "Gnostic" isn't just a part of the word "prognostication".
It's also a reference to the philosophical/religious school of Gnosticism, which was extremely popular in the begininning of the 1st millennium AD.
One of their concepts is that souls of some humans are actually from a higher plane of existence where they're initially a part of the Godhead.
That part of the Godhead "fell" into the material realm and became the souls of some chosen humans, who need to return it to the higher realm in a cosmic event of epic proportions.
An evil "god" who is often called "The Fool" and his servants guard this imperfect material world, trying to keep those human souls "stuck" in it.
However, if you acknowledge your real place in the universe and your connection to the Godhead, you can "awaken", and subsequently ascend.
Also, some Gnostic sects speak of a cosmic battle between the Light and the Dark as two almost equal sides, as well.
I'm sure Andrew just can not be totally oblivious to all this, if he chose "Gnostic" as a major character's name.
Considering that it was the Black Queen that hated the frogs, the "voices from beyond" could have told Aradia to prototype a frog to the sprite because of this. BUT because the BK and BQ are dead in the children's world, the WK and WQ are MIA/Exiled, and then that only leaves Jack as a prototype. I don't think he'd care about being a frog. If being a frog has some kind of extra powers-badjuju involved with being a frog, then I can see Jade using the proto type. If the only reason to make a frog sprite was to make the BQ wig-out, then there is really no point to prototyping the frog with the sprite (the temple is still intact 413 years later, so it would have to been something smaller).
Jade has the perfect oppertunity to Nerf Jack's powers. Prototyping something with lots of weaknesses with the first-gen sprite that would in turn give them to Jack, then something useful with the second prototyping once she enters the medium.
Jade: Prototype Kernal with Faided Salon Poster....
I see that going totally well.Prototyping something with lots of weaknesses with the first-gen sprite
>Jade: Prototype Kernelsprite with the most harmless thing you can think of.
Jade takes a Stay Puft Marshmallow Man and throws it into the Kernelsprite.
...later...
>Kids: OH SHI-
Last edited by Sofos; 07-30-2010 at 04:56 PM.
I meant the title. It's admittedly a tenuous connection (witch-occult-prognostication), but so far it's the closest thing to a clue that I can see.
I think Dave not seeing his scribbles definitely has something to do with the way he didn't realise he was awake. I'm not sure if that's normal and Jade is a deviation because of her Dreambot and other stuff that allows her to be more of a "lucid dreamer", or if it really was some special technique on Dave's part, in which case it is plausible that every single character was supposed to wake up in his or her own way all along (shocking revelation in John's case, dream self shenanigans/??? in Rose's case, the mental acrobatics of irony in Dave's case, Grandpa's science in Jade's case, dragon senses in Terezi's case).
It's interesting that Terezi was awakened by her Custodian as well, just like the awakening also had at least something to do with their respective Guardians in John's and Jade's (and if this theory is correct, Dave's) cases, but I suspect that this pattern probably won't hold for (most of?) the other trolls.
EDIT: And yeah, it seems at least plausible that the kids will try to nerf Jack (seeing as John already encountered him and can probably put two and two together in this case), only for it to backfire hilariously (except not so hilariously when he comes to kill them).
Last edited by Advocate; 07-30-2010 at 04:59 PM.
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