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Thread: Pester Chum's are too long!!

  1. #176
    Bass practice reminder PaulPower's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    This thread does kinda worry me a bit, because I've been brought up with the attitude that criticism is important. You only have to look at the number of bad webcomics out there (CAD, Broken Mirror when it was still active) where the authors stamp down heavily on any criticism they get on their forums.

    Granted, MSPA is in a different league to that stuff, and in particular it's managed to set up a nice feedback loop where the pesterlogs develop the characters and give them unique voices, and the characterisation in turn makes the pesterlogs fun to read, something that the aforementioned comics don't really do with their textwalls.

    I dunno, maybe I'm missing the point because the big problem here seems to be the rudeness of the criticism rather than anything else - that and most of the criticism here seems to revolve around the direction of the story, which is far more subjective (and thus probably better if the creator ignores it) than, say, flaws in technique.

    Oh well. Words.

    edit: bugger, I think I just rerailed the derail.

  2. #177
    Napoleon Impersonator Marelo's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    The problem, as has been noted several times, is not the existence of criticism but the fact that the criticism in question is stupid and wrong.

    Andrew takes criticism well when it's actually good, and yes, he can be trusted to tell the difference.

    Worry not.

  3. #178

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    the best part of this thread, in which multiple people including the OP complain about the quality of writing, is the big honking grammatical error in the title
    good tweets , bad tweits , no taste

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  4. #179
    Now with 200% More Corn orngjce223's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Yes, I spotted the grammatical error and decided to leave it be because the OP has bigger issues. I don't think grammatical and logic errors are in the same realm of importance.

  5. #180

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Yeah I honestly have no problem with criticism as long as it's well thought-out and respectful. In that case, Andrew still has the right to not follow the criticism it if it doesn't suit what he is doing, but we're not going to give the critiquer a hard time about it. However, if someone barges in here and tries to see how just much of a flagrantly smug assmaggot they can be about their criticism, well, I have no problem calling them out on being a giant tool. We have no use for assholes here, whether they are fans of the work or not.

  6. #181

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Quote Originally Posted by orngjce223
    Yes, I spotted the grammatical error and decided to leave it be because the OP has bigger issues. I don't think grammatical and logic errors are in the same realm of importance.
    it's just a nice cherry on top that tickles me every time i see the forum index
    good tweets , bad tweits , no taste

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  7. #182
    Bass practice reminder PaulPower's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Aye, fair enough. I'll shut up now.

  8. #183

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    In order to sufficiently entertain criticism, should I be catering to the concerns of a microscopic minority?

    There's a lot of misunderstanding about how an artist should absorb criticism. An artist can disagree with it. That doesn't mean dissent is being crushed. What if an artist receives two contradictory criticisms? Critics are not entitled to universal appeasement, and pursuit of such appeasement is a road to artistic ruin. Opinionators hide behind the shield of criticism often, as if a critique itself is somehow unassailable, beyond the reach of further criticism. Like a "safe zone" for opinions. Submitting an opinion, much like submitting artwork, ironically places one in a similar position of vulnerability. How convenient to be able to submit it under the auspice of "critique"! If the opinion is questioned, the critique is being "stifled".

    For me to take you seriously as a critic, you need to prove to me you understand what you're talking about. That you understand the work, on the terms it is meant to be understood. This isn't a shallow comic about video games drawn by a person in a state of absolute artistic atrophy, which would heavily benefit from acknowledgment of widespread and vocal criticism. It's a highly layered, intricate story, weaving together many storytelling methods, prose, dialogue, animation and interactivity, flexible and experimental, all strung together with maniacal attention to detail and maintained doggedly with virtually nonexistent interruption. Pardon me if I uphold a very high standard for the sort of person I'll consider to be worthy of criticizing it. You have to get it first, and I really mean Get It. If you are such a person (and especially if you're not), I'll usually be able to tell one or two sentences into our dialogue. And yes, such people do exist, and I have benefited from conversing with them.

    For the record, I would axe all the Flash animations before axing the pesterlogs. If you don't get that, then you don't get what you're reading here. Anyone who thinks the dialogue isn't important is not capable of saying anything useful to me.

  9. #184
    The Punmaster General mehgamehn's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Pfft, I'm not reading all that.

    Come on, man.


  10. #185
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Axing the flashes ???

    But yeah seriously guys uhmm if you don't like Andrew's story then go read a different one instead of trying to get Andrew change his
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  11. #186

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    I'm working that dissertation into the next pesterlog so that everyone reads it. (Or deems it too long to read and skips it.)

  12. #187

  13. #188

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Actually I was going to make Gamzee say it so it will be extra fun to read.

  14. #189
    That Fancy Chap's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew
    Actually I was going to make Gamzee say it so it will be extra fun to read.
    I dunno, I find Sollux to be a bit more confusing at times... Depending on the sentence I guess.

    Also, aliteracy ftl.

  15. #190
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    +1 for freedom to express your criticisms. Likewise for people disagreeing with you. Otherwise a community ends up turning into a big insular circlejerk that thinks it's just perfect and bans anyone that says otherwise.

  16. #191
    The Punmaster General mehgamehn's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Isn't cA the one that's angry at people (as opposed to cG who's angry at everything)?

    Dude I'm just petitioning for my troll here.

  17. #192

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tenor
    +1 for freedom to express your criticisms. Likewise for people disagreeing with you. Otherwise a community ends up turning into a big insular circlejerk that thinks it's just perfect and bans anyone that says otherwise.
    YOU HAVE BEEN BANNED
    REASON GIVEN: NONE
    DATE TO BE LIFTE NEVER

  18. #193

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DgallowsCalibrator
    Axing the flashes ???
    There's obviously no chance of this happening. I was just making a point.

    Really, how cooooool would all these animations be without knowledge of the story and characters? It would be a lot of jumbled nonsense, as is the case for anyone who watches them without prior exposure to MSPA.

    A vast amount of the plot is exposed through the dialogue, and the gradual exposure to these points is inextricably tied into the characterization.

    If either was expendable, it would be the animations, which could simply be replaced by a few static panels. What could the dialogue be replaced by? A great deal of dreadful exposition strikes me as the only real possibility.

  19. #194
    Now with 200% More Corn orngjce223's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr_tenor
    big insular circlejerk that thinks it's just perfect and bans anyone that says otherwise.
    There was a fandom!secret about that a whiles back. Apparently we're dogmatic? And I thought the Andrew-worship was all in good fun!

  20. #195
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    I wrote that fan secret because that's how I roll.

  21. #196
    The Punmaster General mehgamehn's Avatar
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    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Andrew we need to get Homestuck licensed as a Great Illustrated Classic.



    Now no one can complain because it's a fucking book.

  22. #197

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew
    I'm working that dissertation into the next pesterlog so that everyone reads it. (Or deems it too long to read and skips it.)
    Should you not save this spiel for Dave? For when one of the Trolls gets in his face about SBAHJ? (They can see it because, obviously, he uploads it to a server in the Furthest Ring to preserve this pinnacle of human culture.)

  23. #198

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    The book format didn't go over too well when it was invented either.

    They gave people knowledge, and people with knowledge make people who are in charge kinda angry.

    Then again, I think they just wound up printing a bunch of bibles to begin with, and those sure didn't teach nobody nothin' useful.

  24. #199

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    make it a "sound effect" in one of the gifs that emerges one word at a time over like two minutes
    good tweets , bad tweits , no taste

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  25. #200

    Re: Pester Chum's are too long!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew
    Quote Originally Posted by DgallowsCalibrator
    Axing the flashes ???
    There's obviously no chance of this happening. I was just making a point.

    Really, how cooooool would all these animations be without knowledge of the story and characters? It would be a lot of jumbled nonsense, as is the case for anyone who watches them without prior exposure to MSPA.

    A vast amount of the plot is exposed through the dialogue, and the gradual exposure to these points is inextricably tied into the characterization.

    If either was expendable, it would be the animations, which could simply be replaced by a few static panels. What could the dialogue be replaced by? A great deal of dreadful exposition strikes me as the only real possibility.
    I was thinking about this when I watched the Act 4 ending. If you watched that with no context at all you'd get the impression that it had some kind of deep meaning but you would be completely at a loss to guess what it actually was. It was gratifying to think that we had topped Nightmare City in that regard.

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