i dunno about that, my first time through took me forever because i was struggling to remember all the wacky shit that was happening. i guess it really wasn't necessary thoughOriginally Posted by Arcana
There are large swaths of problem sleuth I still don't understand. Homestuck has felt much more coherent to me.
Large swaths of Problem Sleuth were not internally consistent/illogical. Some of it just didn't make sense.
My name is legendaryBuffoon, and y00 are lIkely to be conf00nded by my c0untenance.
well, I guess I got my answer. lol.
I agree with most of you, they are funny, but up until the ones between the trolls. and I agree, I don't find them as engaging as the kids, and yes, *facepalm* I'm new to the forums. =D
Well then, there's always the proper introduction thread, which has a first post with some reasonably useful links on it.
I think people reacted this way because a) you didn't check which forum you were posting on, b) people here are very dedicated fans who read these things dozens of times to poke out the content and point out inconsistencies (so they assume the same thing about others, unfortunately), and c) you're new.
d) People are dicks.Originally Posted by orngjce223
Originally Posted by Socrates
Trolls: A Huge Pile of Intolerable Crapstain.Originally Posted by Majutsukai
Seriously, though. I know I don't hang out on the forums so I don't "get" the depth to this story, but I read Problem Sleuth for a good long time and I was always enamored with the silly feel of it. Why change styles so very drastically? Why try to make a deep story? Especially with such a terrible convolution of characters. In the end, I guess my point is - there are a lot of people who read this who don't come to the forums, because we are really just spectators. I posted a single suggestion in the suggestion box ever and that has been the entirety of my contribution to MSPA. Just because we don't live here in the forums doesn't mean that we enjoy the story any less than you do.
Also, having read all of the pesterlogs, my opinion of them is that they are a colossal waste of time. They impart 0 depth to the story and also they are boring. Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff is more engaging than any pesterlog. At first they were a little cute but now they all take the format
Andrew uses Wall of Text Attack!
Inowar takes 1,000,000 damage!
I read it; I derive 0 joy from it, and it doesn't explain anything interesting. Way to waste my time.
Reading is hard, bro.Originally Posted by Inowar
Originally Posted by Socrates
then why are you reading homestuckOriginally Posted by Inowar
beesmygod: I've been hoping that this troll shenanigans would stop quickly. I've enjoyed nearly all of it up until the exact moment that the trolls were introduced. At which point I enjoyed all the parts that didn't involve the trolls.
But since it isn't stopping it's likely that I'll give up and leave MSPA forever. I just wanted to put my two cents in. Especially since people are ripping on some guy just because they don't know him and disagree with a perfectly valid opinion.
VoltaicPhilosopher: Oh my, I am so hurt by your comment that I now feel compelled to correct you. Reading is a fine thing that I tend to enjoy. Unfortunately, here in this comic, it has been transformed into a torturous labor. At first the pesterchum logs were okay. They had interesting little bits and they weren't that long or frequent. Now upwards of 90% of the content of this is poorly constructed dialogue between characters who are introduced at a whirlwind rate, possess a single quality (which, if you were to believe this thread, is equivalent to characterization), and are, at best, tangentially related to a 900 page long story which I have checked daily since before it began. Excuse me for being uninterested in such literary tripe.
If you don't like, don't read it.Originally Posted by Inowar
Originally Posted by Socrates
I guess I can see where you're coming from with this, but I think that most of the fora, myself included, disagree with you. You read Homestuck for the comedy portion of it alone, and dislike the more epic story behind it. That's a perfectly legitimate way to read it, though you're obviously enjoying it less than we are if you dislike such a major part of it. But to each his own. Also to your question "Why change styles so very drastically? Why try to make a deep story?": It's up to Andrew what he want's his stories to be like, and a lot of the people here think that he made the right choice. I'm sorry that you don't think so, but I respect your opinion, and hope that you find something more suited to your tastes somewhere.Originally Posted by Inowar
oh dang I thought you were saying you hated all the pesterlogs ever and i was like "whaaaaaaat this guy is dedicated to this comic"I've been hoping that this troll shenanigans would stop quickly. I've enjoyed nearly all of it up until the exact moment that the trolls were introduced. At which point I enjoyed all the parts that didn't involve the trolls.
But yeah, different strokes for folks and all. My sister hated the Intermission and I thought it was hilarious and awesome so I can get how you'd get frustrated with that. I don't know about the trolllogs having zero depth since they show the trolls interacting and fighting with each other and this all over shows how a "normal" session is supposed to go. But eh, I get where you're coming from.
-_ - Chill bro. Be a bit more teamfriendly.Originally Posted by VoltaicPhilosopher
Also in regard to the topic.
My personal opinion, you skip the pesterlogs, its like skipping the dialogue in the movie.
nah man, you are not savvy.Originally Posted by Lcheeseboy
I like the epic story. I like the whole Oh man this is so involved and convoluted. I don't like the trolls and I especially don't like this farce of a side plot. Using the trolls as a device to foreshadow, trick john, or as foils to the characters is fine. But attempting to use them as real characters is just forced and painful. I really and truly feel like at first the trolls were introduced as characters with a particular set of qualities in the pesterlogs with the kids. However, they've now been introduced a second time in a flashback with an entirely unrelated set of qualities. It's laborious to read through their extremely long conversations, too. Instead, the entire troll arc could have been replaced with a couple thoughtfully placed conversations with the kids as the story goes on, which also would have been a better way to reveal the true reason behind the overall plot. My buddy in aim here is griping too, and he just said something that's a really good point. "Problem Sleuth always progressed toward the goal. The plot moved forward, not miles back."
Sorry my thoughts are all over the place, I haven't really organized what exactly it is that I dislike about what is going on. It's just really frustrating to be so far along a story and have it essentially interrupted with "plot". The intermission was fine because it didn't pretend to be related to the story, and it had its own entirely different feel. Integrating it into the story retroactively is fine, because that's how things work around here, and that's okay. But the trolls, man. the trolls.
Originally Posted by Inowar
Originally Posted by Socrates
Ignoring the unnecessary comment, I'm not sure what you dislike as well. Too much plot?Originally Posted by Inowar
Also Problem Sleuth never had to go back because there was nothing to go back on. Other than some characters catching up, there wasn't a back story or a history to be explained. Sure you may find the troll story tedious and unnecessary, but it gives us more insight on Skaia, Sburb, The Felt, and the overall story. A few conversations with the kids would have been boring. Sure I love the conversations, but then it become a "OOO and this happened, and that, and this what happened then." kind of thing. It's better to show than to tell. The trolls may seem like side characters, and I'm sure they may not all be important, but without learning about them, I think a lot of the story would be lost.
I'm not sure why you have a facepalm here. My best guess is that you don't understand my use of quotation marks around the word plot.
I will give you an analogy so that you understand.
I would like to have some plot, but instead I got this "plot".
I would like to have some apple pie, but instead I got this "bowl of horse poop".
By "you are not savvy" I merely meant that you did not catch my drift. I may have been unclear. Both in what I meant by that and also in presenting my drift.
Respectfully disagree regarding the trolls. I can't refute what you say, I just feel that they are trite and forced. All of these things could have been explained in better ways.
I fail to see how glossing over a portion of the narrative is better storytelling than going into detail about all of the characters involved.Originally Posted by Inowar
Originally Posted by Socrates
Before people complained that the trolls weren't real characters and were annoyed because they were just talking with the kids instead of doing anything themselves. Now people are complaining that they are real characters and they do get to do stuff.
Can't please everybody I guess.
We are pretty much learning the backstory of Sburb that we couldn't learn if we were stuck with John and co. the whole time, as they are too busy dealing with the fallout. And Andrew would have had to do something with the trolls eventually, it would have been sucky for them to have remained two-bit characters who sat behind computers telling the protagonists they were going to fuck everything up. It would have been bad storytelling to forget about them, not give them a backstory and not give them a resolution.
I don't think any of the trolls seem forced--I'm actually pretty impressed by how he's managed to launch into a big string of character introductions and not trip over his own feet. I guess he did trip for you though. Oh well. There is not really much you can do here, either keep reading and tough it out or come back in a month or two when the act is over and we're back to the kids. You'll have missed out on a lot, but if this makes you boil with rage then I don't see why you should continue reading.
I get what your saying. It does feel like these annoying guys who give out plot wouldn't be good for fully fleshed characters, but it's the same thing with the midnight crew.Originally Posted by Inowar
They really only made slight appearances in it before hand, and it since there wasn't much character to them they were easy to fill. The trolls have very distinct personalities and thus allow for there character to fill the plot.
Yeah it came out of left field, but it adds dept to the story. It's also going to feel trite because the characters are somewhat going through the same thing the kids did, at a much faster pace. And it feels forced because these characters who were slightly antagonistic, yet somewhat minor are getting a story. I'd say give it more time.
Forewarning: I kind of tear into the Problem Sleuth comparison a little in here. Apologizing beforehand.Originally Posted by Inowar
Ok, sorry about that. I just kind of tookto mean that you didn't like the depth of the story. This, though: Problem Sleuth always progressed toward the goal. The plot moved forward, not miles back." Problem Sleuth didn't even have a clearly defined goal for the first half of it's existence, aside from "Get out of your office", which it moved away from fairly rapidly. When it finally developed a new one, it basically came down to "Kill this guy", not exactly the most inventive of goals. It did an excellent job with that, true, but it really doesn't compare to Homestuck very well. I see that you're really just saying of the trolls the same thing someone has said about every new character in Homestuck at some point, that they're distracting from the main story. When Jade was first introduced, a lot of people disliked her because they thought she was keeping us away from the "real" story. All I can really say to that is that you should try sticking this section out and seeing where the story goes from here. Chances are that eventually you'll start grudgingly accepting the trolls, then wondering what you had against them in the first place. Or maybe not. But please don't quit before giving the trolls a proper chance to grow on you. It's only been two weeks, after all.Originally Posted by Inowar
It really sounds like your problem isn't with the trolls. You clearly have contempt for the entire story, and its departure from the PS formula.Originally Posted by Inowar
Should an artist manufacture a consistent product for his entire career? Should diversity in projects be considered a sign of regression? I don't know if it should be, but it certainly will be considered a nuisance by many. Especially those who were under impression that the purpose of an artist's existence was to continue spoon feeding them what they grew comfortable with. Unsurprisingly, this class of people is the group that is the most toxic for an artist to strive to appease. In fact, my view is that currying their disfavor is a sure sign of progress.
But it's cool that you used your only 4 posts here to uncork a disgruntled and somewhat contradictory analysis, instead of just not reading. Nobody's doing me any favors trudging through this thing with even tempered interest, let alone disdain. If anyone thinks there's too much to read, or really too much or too little of anything, I'd rather they just didn't bother.