Hivebent: The Radio Play

[Gazpacho Soup]

Okay, here is my blunt and abrasive assessment of the cast.

Constructive criticism offered to the folks who I think have some potential.

Narrator: Too ordinary-sounding. I say the role Needs a more radio-host type voice, or something similar.

Karkat: Meh. Understudy actually delivers the lines in a funny way, and pulls off Karkat's generic rage much better. Not sure why he's the understudy.

Gamzee: Decent

Terezi: Understudy is MUCH better.

Sollux: Meh

Tavros: Spot on. I liked this one immediately.

Aradia: Pretty good! Good audio quality, too.

Nepeta: Good sound, but the babytalk-esque approach is a little much. She ought to try to sound more like Mistral, and less like Bubbles.

Vriska: Not bad at all!

Equius: Meh

Kanaya: Meh

Eridan: Very good! But why the hell is he doing Eridan and not Equius?

Feferi: Very cute, and I like your voice. I would suggest trying to sound a little older, though, if it is possible.

Doc Scratch: Not bad

Jack Noir/Spades Slick: Decent.

Snowman/Black Queen: Very nice! Need to work on audio clarity a bit, but you seem to have nailed the character.

John: Not bad. I think you sound a little too old, but you seem to have the character down well enough.

Rose: The voice isn't bad, but I'd suggest working on articulating a bit, and you might practice your nuance, as it sounds less like a person seriously speaking and more like a blatant script reading.


So.... all in all, I'm kinda underwhelmed by the talent. No offense intended, but I can't see myself getting very motivated by all this.

I wish you all the best of luck, though!

I'm just going to leave this here...

Constructive criticism, or constructive analysis, is a compassionate attitude towards the person qualified for criticism. Having higher experience, gifts, respect, knowledge in specific field and being able to verbally convince at the same time, this person is intending to uplift the other person materially, morally, emotionally or spiritually. For high probability in succeeding compassionate criticism, the critic has to be in some kind of healthy personal relationship with the other one, which is normally a parent to child, friend to friend, teacher to student, spouse to spouse or any kind of recognized authority in specific field. Hence the word constructive is used so that something is created or visible outcome generated rather than the opposite. Participatory learning in pedagogy is based on these principles of constructive criticism, focusing on positive examples to be emulated over precepts to be followed.

There can be tension between friendly support and useful criticism. A critic might usefully help an individual artist to recognize what is poor or slapdash in their body of work, but the critic may appear harsh and judgmental in the process. Useful criticism is a practical part of constructive criticism.

But wait! There's more:

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Constructive criticism is criticism kindly meant that has a goal of improving some area of another’s person’s life or work. Often constructive criticism refers specifically to the critique of someone else’s written or artistic work, in perhaps a teacher/student setting, that would allow that person to further improve the work or to improve their approach to future endeavors....The trouble with constructive criticism is that not all people are receptive to it. They may either feel their self-esteem shrinking under criticism, or they may feel that all criticism is negative. This can destroy the intent of constructive criticism.

Further, not all people who think they are employing constructive criticism are actually being helpful. They may think all criticism is helpful and may not spare the person any details or couch the criticism in ways least likely to make a person defensive. Communication is loaded with multiple intentions, especially in a parent/child or spousal relationships. Thus people may not know how to actually employ a critique of one aspect of a person without involving their own feelings or frustration that make a critique negative.

Generally, constructive criticism should address an area that needs improving but does not speak to the person’s self. Constructive criticism should be a reasoned, unemotional response in an effort to teach....

A similar approach is taken between a therapist and a client. The therapist usually resists direct criticism but helps the client find ways to talk about behaviors and solve problems. This kind of relationship bases its approach on the theory that the therapist best serves the client by helping them identify and resolve problems and issues, instead of pointing out the issues and presenting a solution to the client.

In teacher/student relationships, constructive criticism tends to be far more helpful than a blunt critique of a student’s defects. Questions on a paper and also praise in some areas can make constructive criticism easier to receive. Although, some students do jump to the point and want to immediately know what they did wrong.

Some teachers provide very helpful guidelines prior to a student writing a paper or essay. Telling the student ahead of time that the paper must have five paragraphs, a clear thesis statement, a conclusion, etc, often eliminates problems before they occur. If a student has then not fulfilled the requirements of the essay, help can be given in the areas where the student’s performance is weak.

[CasMat]

Though I sort of agree that my Equius is underwhelming as of now, it'd be nice if you would say exactly what it is you think needs to be done with the character. I already got a nice crit of my audition from Ivan (which I asked for before I even saw this post, so I acknowledge that there are definitely things I need to do better), and plan to use it. I will probably rerecord the audition with it in mind and ask Ivan/the casting directors/anyone else with crit what they think. Though since I'd rather not have this go off-topic(?), I would like if you would PM any criticism to me instead. This is also an invitation to anyone to give me some con-crit; I am asking for it, and I'd like to profess that I am not thin skinned at all.

[NotASenator]

Also, to Red Pen; Good on you! I think you have a nice-sounding voice, but I'm not sure if it's right for Kanaya.

Anyway, had my intention been to actually convince the folks in charge to change the cast, I might have done that. Since I only showed up after things were in motion, I'm not holding out for hope for any serious involvement, or having any influence on the casting.

So you're just dogging on people because...?

Maybe you just want to make me look bad after I told everyone that you were a cool dude?

[ThisCrab]

CONSTRACTIVE BUTTS:

Goatmon: Could be more like a Goat. Less like a 'mon.

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Be like this ----->

[Nevrmore]

Correct Response to Criticism:

A) Hey, thank you for the critique. I'll work on that.

OR

B) I don't agree with/understand what you're saying, but thanks for taking the time to respond, anyway.

Incorrect Response to Criticism:

This thread.

[Von Fawn]

Okay. Moving on.

This is slightly old news, but as Hussie is now on his animation break, we can safely say that Hivebent will be ending soon. Awesome. This means several things:

- We're going to have a readthrough at some point in the next week or so, as of yet undetermined. PM me to let me know what nights you're available and we'll figure out when the best time to meet will be. I'm probably only going to be needing the characters who appear earlier in the play, but everyone in the cast (including understudies!) should PM me with their availability anyway so we can figure this out. The writers should also be there to take notes, and the rest of the crew is more than welcome to do so as well in order to see how things are progressing.

- On the same note, writers: be sure that you have something ready for this readthrough!

- A few cast members have already contacted me to talk about character notes and all sorts of fun things, which I wanted to do anyway. So cast: when you PM me to let me know your availability for the readthrough, also let me know when you'd like to talk about character work and we can have a private vent meeting. When you do, I'll let you know what I want you to think about for the meeting. By the way, if you are an understudy, you should be in the meeting with the person you are understudying!


Also, we're going to have a new vent which is exclusive to the MSPlayers. (Out of respect for Matt and Veco, who have kindly let us use their server—we've bugged them enough as it is.) It won't be set up until Monday at the earliest, so I'll let you know when it's ready. Anyone is free to join us, so long as they act respectful when we're in another channel working.


Finally, in light of recent events, if you have some feedback to give about any aspect of the radio play, just PM me. It's really great to have opinions but I find that posting them here can start a lot of drama and I would really like this process to be as drama-free as possible. (Ambitious, given the nature of the project, but what can I say?)

That said, I'm more than welcome to hear any criticism you might have, so long as you PM it to me. As the lady in charge, I already give notes to the cast and crew, so if you point out something that I haven't noticed then I'll be able to synthesize it into my feedback. Your opinion will count and nobody gets hurt, which, to me, sounds like the best of all possible worlds.

Yes, that was a reference to Candide. I'm going to stop now.

Just PM me if you have crit, or concerns, or anything. People who PM me can tell you that I'm good about reading and responding to things, so I promise that I will pay attention to it.

[crash826]

Uh. Do I count as an MSPlayer? I didn't get a role, but I helped with music a little.

[Kuraiou]

yes, you do

[orngjce223]

I'm not sure where the music folk will be in all this, but as we're in the post-production category I think our job comes a little later.

Not that that's an excuse to slack off now. We still have to separate out all twelve leitmotifs and get the list from the writers as to what bits of music go where and approximately how long they have to be.

[Ledundead]

I was thinking, for the music people, you may need to make extended mixes of certain songs. for instance, the Lemonsnout turnabout scene will likely end up far longer than the original song's run length, not to mention the different parts of the trial that the parts of the song attempt to emulate would need to matched up. We'll know how long it needs to be when we actually get the lines recorded. This will probably be a consistant issue.

[Jay-Arr]

PM me to let me know what nights you're available and we'll figure out when the best time to meet will be. I'm probably only going to be needing the characters who appear earlier in the play, but everyone in the cast (including understudies!) should PM me with their availability anyway so we can figure this out.

Um, how much of our schedules do you want? Because right now I have something of a vague schedule in my mind of September-early October...

[Von Fawn]

Uh. Do I count as an MSPlayer? I didn't get a role, but I helped with music a little.

Well as someone who helps with music, you do!

But let me clarify (and I'll edit the post as well): people who just want to hang out with the MSPlayers are more than welcome to join us, as long as they respect the fact that sometimes we need to get stuff done.

Um, how much of our schedules do you want? Because right now I have something of a vague schedule in my mind of September-early October...

Ooh, well, if you know a lot in advance, then there's no harm in telling me!

[Goatmon]

So you're just dogging on people because...?

Maybe you just want to make me look bad after I told everyone that you were a cool dude?

I wasn't dogging on anybody. I Just wasn't impressed with most of the cast.

Most of what I said wasn't constructive, no, and I never said it was going to be. I only offered any useful criticism to the folks who I thought had some potential, which, if you actually read what I said, is exactly what I said I was going to do.

I'm not really sure how I could have been more clear on this from the start, short of going THIS IS MOSTLY NOT USEFUL CRITICISM OKAY DUR DUR. Jeez.

I made it clear that I'm not trying to antagonize everyone, and all I keep getting is more people acting butt hurt. I give up. I'm tempted to go into further detail, but Nevrmore voiced my problem pretty well.

Anyway, I'm out. Best of luck to you guys on the Radio Play.

[Moondelev]

Well as someone who helps with music, you do!

But let me clarify (and I'll edit the post as well): people who just want to hang out with the MSPlayers are more than welcome to join us, as long as they respect the fact that sometimes we need to get stuff done.

So, if we're one of the aforementioned people who just wants to hang out, we can still be sent the new server location? Awesome. And I won't mind being quiet when you guys get down to work at all.

[NotASenator]

I wasn't dogging on anybody. I Just wasn't impressed with most of the cast.

Most of what I said wasn't constructive, no, and I never said it was going to be. I only offered any useful criticism to the folks who I thought had some potential, which, if you actually read what I said, is exactly what I said I was going to do.

I'm not really sure how I could have been more clear on this from the start, short of going THIS IS MOSTLY NOT USEFUL CRITICISM OKAY DUR DUR. Jeez.

I made it clear that I'm not trying to antagonize everyone, and all I keep getting is more people acting butt hurt. I give up. I'm tempted to go into further detail, but Nevrmore voiced my problem pretty well.

Anyway, I'm out. Best of luck to you guys on the Radio Play.

Yeah, you are out.

If you don't have constructive criticism and don't like something, you don't come in and tell them you think they suck. That's just trolling and it doesn't fly here.

[Goatmon]

Being inconsiderate =/= trolling.

[Betelgeuse]

Being inconsiderate =/= trolling.

Not your call to make, bro.

Way to be a gigantic jackass.

[Solaris]

I'm going to derail this debate over the various casting choices by saying that Alex's video is excellent and puts my paltry effort at a birthday present to shame.

Pfff, better than me, I didn't get him anything at all. :P
Sorry Teleharmonic.
I have still not fully grasped the concept of giving gifts on the internets.
(or did I)
Yes

[Nevrmore]

Everyone here is getting way too worked up over nothing, Goatmon included.

Let's examine the facts here, guys. What did Goatmon's post consist of?

He said 2 people were miscast and he preferred their understudy.
He had no opinion of 3 people.
He gave 5 people instructions on how to enhance their performance.
He thought 9 people were decent to very good.

Does this seriously warrant a shitfest? I mean, honestly now, guys. If Goatmon had wanted to he could have ripped you all apart. I think it's pretty obvious that he was refraining from saying anything too directly standoffish, and while a few things he said were somewhat dickish it's not really blood in the water, here. I realize that not everyone on this project is experienced with acting and aren't accustomed to getting bad reviews, but this is hardly the terrible and worthless vitriol that it's being made out to be.

[NotASenator]

Everyone here is getting way too worked up over nothing, Goatmon included.

Let's examine the facts here, guys. What did Goatmon's post consist of?

He said 2 people were miscast and he preferred their understudy.
He had no opinion of 3 people.
He gave 5 people instructions on how to enhance their performance.
He thought 9 people were decent to very good.

Does this seriously warrant a shitfest? I mean, honestly now, guys. If Goatmon had wanted to he could have ripped you all apart. I think it's pretty obvious that he was refraining from saying anything too directly standoffish, and while a few things he said were somewhat dickish it's not really blood in the water, here. I realize that not everyone on this project is experienced with acting and aren't accustomed to getting bad reviews, but this is hardly the terrible and worthless vitriol that it's being made out to be.

It was "Look at me, I'm superior" trolling and people responded in kind. If you plan on telling people what to do, try to not be wrong at the same time.

This has become an administrative issue now, so the discussion on it is over.

[nextian]

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Let's put it differently, Nevrmore: what exactly was his criticism meant to achieve? Were we going to rush out and recast everyone based on his insights? The casting team made our decisions with hours of deliberation in each round. We aren't going to look at his lists and be like "welp guess you're right dude back to the drawing board." The only people he could be useful to are the voice actors, and in very few cases did he give critique that could possibly be helpful to them. What are you going to do with "meh"?

His point was essentially, "This isn't a professional project." He has successfully made that point. This is not a professional project, or we'd be casting people from outside the community instead of trying to keep it a labor of love. Several pages ago Fawn made it clear that any attempt to shit on the casting team's decisions would not be considered acceptable. If he really wanted to make this project professional, he would have, IDK, read any of the announcements by the director.

It isn't that big a deal; NAS has infracted him and that's basically how it goes. But not only is it against the spirit of the forums at large, it's specifically against the rules for the project.

e: oh, sorry, NAS. ninja'd by "stfu."

[Teleharmonic]

And I'd just like to thank everyone once again for the birthday wishes and COMPLETELY AWESOME presents! You guys are absolutely the best.

I think this radio play is going to be a great success. You guys have both talent and heart; with those, damn near anything is possible.

So: PCHOOOOO!

[Lexxy]

Official Mod Stance

Being inconsiderate and offering nonconstructive criticism regardless of whether or not that was your expressed intent is not allowed in this subforum. What he said in that post was unhelpful and fairly rude. Had he offered legitimately constructive criticism to all casting choices, or excluded those he felt were lacking or miscast (having nothing good or helpful to say about them), that would have been a bit of a different story.

Tactlessness aside, being that he was not invited to participate in the casting process, nor has he any vested interest or effort in the project, I feel that post was unprecedented. I encourage everyone to use their judgment when weighing in on projects in the future, both in discerning whether or not it will be welcome and in whether or not you are delivering it in a tone that is appropriate. You could offer the best advice in the world, but most people aren't going to listen to you if you're a jerk about it.

[Kebs]

So anyways, what's the stance on posting voice things in here, specifically for the purpose of critique? I'm in the middle of working on some stuff, and I'm wondering if I should post it here, or the VA thread, or just PM people or what?

[crash826]

So anyways, what's the stance on posting voice things in here, specifically for the purpose of critique? I'm in the middle of working on some stuff, and I'm wondering if I should post it here, or the VA thread, or just PM people or what?

Is it part of the Radio Play? If so, here. If not, the VA thread.