Romantic Speculation Thread (Holiday Ship-To-Ship Combat)

[sebastian]

I think the reason Karkat can't have a good kismesis is that he just too much of a nice guy at heart.
I mean, look at Equius he hate more of all Alternia even before the cataclysm, a paladin of all he can stand against (the hemospectrum) and yet the moment Karkat say him something really hurtful he quickly apologize.
Maybe that is why he think only himself (past or future) is an adequate kismesis, because he is the only one he is not afraid to hurt.

[Shadow of the Lotus]

Rose and Eridian's text is both pinkish omg otp!

First thing to make sense in this thread yet (nah, just being mean [to everyone else I mean; poking fun at being all serious about this. It's not bad to take a serious note on the romance shenanigans though).

I'm more interested in Rose's response to Eridan as relates her understanding of troll romance. She does understand what Eridan was getting at. It's probably likely that Kanaya mentioned the four sorts of romance to Rose in one of their like, 1,000+ conversations. Rose says "

TT: Oh, right. Alien romance, I forgot.
TT: Pass.

" which is most likely just a refutation of Eridan's advances or could indicated 1) disdain for the concept of kissmessitude (sp), 2) disdain for all other three versions of romance outside of matesprite, or 3) disdain for the idea of intergalactic romance with aliens. Since I find it likely that Kanaya explained the relationship to Rose, I'm pretty sure that Nepeta is pestering Rose so that she could affix her shipping chart. We might get an answer on Rose and Kanaya soon and I expect it to be incredibly vague and easily interpretable for both arguments on it (although I hope it's as quick a punch as John's "I'm not a homosexual" with Rose saying "I'm not interested in romance with aliens.'"

[tawawawa]

I don't think Rose sees Eridan as anything more than an annoying gnat or stupid internet troll than as a person. That's why it's so easy to just blow up Eridan's computer to silence the bug forever.

Real smooth, Eridan. Way to play desperate. Who's next for your kismesis? Lets go down the list of people available... Tavros? He's all buddy buddy with your ex-kismesis. Warn me beforehand so I can start making the popcorn!

For Rose picking up the alien romance part, yeah it could be from Kanaya... who would obviously be much more subtle in mentioning it. Or maybe Karkat in one of his matchmating conversations to get her hooked up with John instead of Kanaya. Who knows. I think Rose in general has much bigger fish to fry instead of doing anything romantic. ( John personally admitted that he wasn't very sure about it either at his current age ) Her chart would just be filled with boring guesses instead of any real meat to dig into. The same goes for pretty much all the kids right now... Only the trolls have their relationships developed.

I don't feel like this thread will heat up until the trolls are mapped out.

[BlastYoBoots]

TT: Oh, right. Alien romance, I forgot.
TT: Pass.

Eridan is specifically referring to other quadrants, here. In fact, he was hoping more for Kismesis in the conversation:

CA: you obvviously hate me and i think i got it in me to get the dark propensities smolderin

I knew Eridan would be interested in Rose's magic use, at least, but I overlooked that he'd assume royalty from her pink text. In fact, he's advancing without being very attracted here; he mentions the *propensity* for him to be. His forwardness is just desperation for a Kismesis here.

Rose is not going to go for Eridan. She has no patience for his personality and insecurities, at all. However, the fact that his excessively forward advances were such a colossal failure opens up a possibility for slightly more success with Jade, who has a more Feferi-like personality and can actually reciprocate flushed feelings.

Not immediately, of course. We know that (1) Eridan will fail miserably on the first try for things like this, and (2) he'll like stand in a quadrant with a bucket full of flowers or slime or whatever and Jade will be like no thanks bro. But if he can somehow convince Jade that he's nice - or he meshes better with post-waking-up Jade, whose personality might be shaken somewhat - that path of pursuit is open to him.

Again, we can't quite tell until we see what Jade is like when she wakes up.

[tawawawa]

BlastYoBoots, I think you should mention that Vriska does give John a death threat for some reason in the future. In the current timeline, even when John IMs Vriska first and she gets rather annoyed and says she's pissed, her anger's rather mild. Not death threat worthy. There's something that John will do to Vriska in the future that pushes her off the edge. At this moment of time in the story, it is completely unknown.

Why does she give him the threat so far back in the past where he wouldn't even understand? No freakin' clue.

I feel like this is a more plausible breaking branch than Vriska getting Dave killed. Dave seems to be pretty good at reversing his own death via his turntables. If she killed him, there would be another Dave in line who will avoid that situation and continue on.

[8oy Skylark]

CA: you obvviously hate me and i think i got it in me to get the dark propensities smolderin

I knew Eridan would be interested in Rose's magic use, at least, but I overlooked that he'd assume royalty from her pink text. In fact, he's advancing without being very attracted here; he mentions the *propensity* for him to be. His forwardness is just desperation for a Kismesis here.

Rose is not going to go for Eridan. She has no patience for his personality and insecurities, at all. However, the fact that his excessively forward advances were such a colossal failure opens up a possibility for slightly more success with Jade, who has a more Feferi-like personality and can actually reciprocate flushed feelings.

Not immediately, of course. We know that (1) Eridan will fail miserably on the first try for things like this, and (2) he'll like stand in a quadrant with a bucket full of flowers or slime or whatever and Jade will be like no thanks bro. But if he can somehow convince Jade that he's nice - or he meshes better with post-waking-up Jade, whose personality might be shaken somewhat - that path of pursuit is open to him.

Again, we can't quite tell until we see what Jade is like when she wakes up.

Without being very attracted? While yes he's probably just making another push towards getting a Kismesis (which means he's automatically doomed to be pathetic about it) without too much focus on how much he hates her, I think that he only makes this motion because he sees a potential calignous alignment. And from his reaction during Alterniabound we can assume that this exchange increased his calignous feelings for her.

Rose probably won't go for Eridan in a romantic sense, naturally, but her reactions and overall tone of voice while speaking to Eridan are at the very least reminiscent of a potent Kismesis exchange. It is highly unlikely she'll attach this hatred to romance, even knowing about Kismesissitude, but if he continues to make moves towards her with this hate in mind, and she responds in a similar fashion to how she did now, Eridan could quite easily see this as a potent Calignous relationship. As long as both of their hate is in equal magnitude, his perception would make it reality. Until actual reroduction conversation occurs, they could easily be considered each other's kismeses, because even if Rose doesn't attach it to romance, she returns the calignous feelings.

Because of Eridan's destroyed computer, future contact between the two is unlikely pre-Rift to say the least.

[BlastYoBoots]

BlastYoBoots, I think you should mention that Vriska does give John a death threat for some reason in the future. In the current timeline, even when John IMs Vriska first and she gets rather annoyed and says she's pissed, her anger's rather mild. Not death threat worthy. There's something that John will do to Vriska in the future that pushes her off the edge. At this moment of time in the story, it is completely unknown.

Why does she give him the threat so far back in the past where he wouldn't even understand? No freakin' clue.

I feel like this is a more plausible breaking branch than Vriska getting Dave killed. Dave seems to be pretty good at reversing his own death via his turntables. If she killed him, there would be another Dave in line who will avoid that situation and continue on.

Creating dead Daves is nothing to sneeze at. Dave certainly doesn't like it, and Vriska does something to convince Dave she's crazy. And John wouldn't take kindly to his friends being hurt for petty reasons.

Also, the way I saw it, Vriska's past death threat - and the nonsense of threatening his past self in the first place - indicate some emotion on her part over something. Most likely, as I saw it, from John breaking with her. That's really the only kind of betrayal John could manage from his end, unless he ends up smooching a nearby kid that he has never (as of yet) considered interest in.

This is why I used that piece of evidence (3a) as justification for the break having taken place. If you can think of a plausible/justified break impetus involving John betraying Vriska's trust - and I can't - then please let us know!

Without being very attracted? While yes he's probably just making another push towards getting a Kismesis (which means he's automatically doomed to be pathetic about it) without too much focus on how much he hates her, I think that he only makes this motion because he sees a potential calignous alignment. And from his reaction during Alterniabound we can assume that this exchange increased his calignous feelings for her.

Rose probably won't go for Eridan in a romantic sense, naturally, but her reactions and overall tone of voice while speaking to Eridan are at the very least reminiscent of a potent Kismesis exchange.

Kismessitude requires hateful attention and desire to project hate, on both sides. Rose hates Eridan, sure... but she won't give him the time of day. Rose's position here is, and likely will continue to be, aggressive disregard. She just doesn't want to deal with this guy.

A Kismesis isn't "go away I hate you", it's "come here so I can stab you".

[8oy Skylark]

Kismessitude requires hateful attention and desire to project hate, on both sides. Rose hates Eridan, sure... but she won't give him the time of day. Rose's position here is, and likely will continue to be, aggressive disregard. She just doesn't want to deal with this guy.

A Kismesis isn't "go away I hate you", it's "come here so I can stab you".

I understand that. The idea behind what I was saying is that it's not a Kismesissitude, but that Eridan would perceive it as such. And for at least the party perceiving it, perception is reality.
Rose will never actually form a Calignous relationship with him, but he's the type to jump to conclusions on things like that.

If he continues to make advances at her on a regular basis, and she reacts in a manner with similar potency to blowing up his computer, he wouldn't take it as a "Leave me alone." Eridan, being... well Eridan, would most likely construe this as .

[jumpjet2k]

Kismessitude (sic) requires hateful attention and desire to project hate, on both sides. Rose hates Eridan, sure... but she won't give him the time of day. Rose's position here is, and likely will continue to be, aggressive disregard. She just doesn't want to deal with this guy.

A Kismesis isn't "go away I hate you", it's "come here so I can stab you".

Absolutely true.

In my mind, the key thing a troll seeks in a kismesissitude is a worthy adversary. I quote the original description as evidence:

There is no particularly good human translation for this concept. The closest would be an especially potent arch-rivalry.

Vriska and Eridan (pre-Sgrub) were a prime example - there were obviously a lot of angry feelings being tossed around, but in my mind the key in that relationship was the constant power struggle to be the biggest, baddest, most villainous, and most deadly troll. It also was an ideal situation in that both benefited externally from the relationship - Eridan got to feed Feferi's lusus, Vriska got to feed hers, and both of them got lots of sw33t l00t. However (and this is more into the speculative side here), as Vriska grew weary of dealing with her lusus and started catching some flack for killing and maiming people all the time, she started to drift away from their arrangement, much to Eridan's dismay. And once he started getting desperate for hate, he really came off as pretty pathetic, which turned her off even more.

For this reason, Rose Eridan won't work, because I can't imagine Rose would ever view him as a real adversary - she thinks he's pretty pathetic, too. So for Eridan, it'll always be a one-sided emotion. The same thing happened to him with Feferi, as we clearly saw.

(BYB, I can kinda see why you go and bold things all the time. It's pretty tempting to add some more here. But it's all about restraint! Gotta keep that shit in check!)

[8oy Skylark]

... I just said that it would be one sided. What I also said is that given Eridan's personality, I can see him taking it for granted that she 's him.

[tawawawa]

BlastYoBoots, I think you should mention that Vriska does give John a death threat for some reason in the future. In the current timeline, even when John IMs Vriska first and she gets rather annoyed and says she's pissed, her anger's rather mild. Not death threat worthy. There's something that John will do to Vriska in the future that pushes her off the edge. At this moment of time in the story, it is completely unknown.

Why does she give him the threat so far back in the past where he wouldn't even understand? No freakin' clue.

I feel like this is a more plausible breaking branch than Vriska getting Dave killed. Dave seems to be pretty good at reversing his own death via his turntables. If she killed him, there would be another Dave in line who will avoid that situation and continue on.

Creating dead Daves is nothing to sneeze at. Dave certainly doesn't like it, and Vriska does something to convince Dave she's crazy. And John wouldn't take kindly to his friends being hurt for petty reasons.

Also, the way I saw it, Vriska's past death threat - and the nonsense of threatening his past self in the first place - indicate some emotion on her part over something. Most likely, as I saw it, from John breaking with her. That's really the only kind of betrayal John could manage from his end, unless he ends up smooching a nearby kid that he has never (as of yet) considered interest in.

This is why I used that piece of evidence (3a) as justification for the break having taken place. If you can think of a plausible/justified break impetus involving John betraying Vriska's trust - and I can't - then please let us know!

I feel like Dave tosses around the word "crazy" rather easily when describing all the girls. But then again, he had to deal with Jade playing SGRUB in her sleep and being a furry fan and Rose being her weirdass self. John on the other hand just finds them weird. It's hard to believe anything that Dave says to describe things due to his personality so I'm not believing that the girls have completely gone "crazy" and "crazier".

This continues to Dave's description of Vriska to John. She did introduce herself to John as her FLARP character and types with an obvious quirk. I don't think she would have nice things to say to Dave since Terezi is all over the guy. She could have probably pulled a psyche on him, like she did to Karkat when she was still on the Blue Team. To Dave, all that could come off as "crazy". It doesn't look like he thinks much of the trolls other than Terezi.

I'm taking his descriptions of others with a pinch of salt. His irony can be rather bland.

[jumpjet2k]

... I just said that it would be one sided. What I also said is that given Eridan's personality, I can see him taking it for granted that she 's him.

I know, I wasn't refuting your point. I was typing up my post as you posted yours, anyways.

[8oy Skylark]

... I just said that it would be one sided. What I also said is that given Eridan's personality, I can see him taking it for granted that she 's him.

I know, I wasn't refuting your point. I was typing up my post as you posted yours, anyways.

Then I apologize for a minor misinterpretation of your post.

[Shadow of the Lotus]

Hey, was it ever brought up how John said that he 'felt weird' when Rose was watching him? (or even just talking to him). Just wondering; I always thought that was a cuter John/Rose moment.

Maybe the thing that sets Vriska off is John turning down her advances. Similar to what Kanaya did to Rose, Vriska threatens John in the past as a way of justifying her being turned down. Vriska would think that John 'turned her down' because Vriska set him up to turn her down. It wasn't anything wrong with her, she was simply providing the eventual rational that led to the inevitable failure of her relationship. It might be odd to think like that, but if you were turned down by someone you loved wouldn't you take solace in the fact that you, personally, sabotaged the relationship and that it was nothing wrong with you? It isn't Vriska's 'fault' that John turned her down, she had already set up the relationship to fail. It's like breaking up with someone before they break up with you. A sort of 'in your face!' reaction even though you, really, wanted the relationship still.

[DaGreatJL]

Rose and Eridian's text is both pinkish omg otp!

Which is why Eridan jumped to the conclusion that Rose is a noble.

[DaGreatJL]

So what are some possible auspistice that people have seen? Other than the canon failed auspistice of Vriska>8oKanayao8<Tavros, and the successful Vriska>8oTavroso8<Aradia, I haven't really been able to identify many possibilities. Aaaaaaaanybody else have any ideas on auspistices?

[ArmsAreLoud]

I've seen some speculation on a Rose>8oEridan>8oNepeta one.

I don't really see it happening unless there is an indication of it in Nepeta's log with Rose, but I'm just throwing it out there.

[DaGreatJL]

I've seen some speculation on a Rose>8oEridan>8oNepeta one.

I don't really see it happening unless there is an indication of it in Nepeta's log with Rose, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Do you mean, Nepeta mediating between Rose and Eridan?

We should figure out how to notate this sort of thing. I was thinking the middle person could the mediator, although we could do it any which way.

[ArmsAreLoud]

That's exactly what I meant and I was going to use the system that you did and I don't really know why I didn't. :l

[DaGreatJL]

Slip of the keyboard then.

[Salty]

Perhaps, just perhaps...you could describe it with text instead of random notation cobbled together from symbols with entirely different meanings.

[gimmethegepgun]

Or, instead of making things simple, we could do something complicated (that also kinda makes sense) like this:
Tavros >8 Vriska o Kanaya

[BlastYoBoots]

Alright, the female kids' outcomes could vary wildly depending on what happens in the next 10-40 pages or so. Until I know:
- A better idea of where Rose is descending
- How Aradia blows up
- What happens to Jade/Feferi while asleep with dead dreamselves, and how this affects them
I won't be able to forecast their branchings accurately.

So, I'm going to write the section for one of the trolls. Tomorrow night.

Which one? FIRST TWO PEOPLE TO SUGGEST THE SAME TROLL NAME I'LL CHOOSE THAT

UNLESS IT'S INFOLESS / BULLSHIT

HURRY

[gimmethegepgun]

Terezi, as per the "drama" involving Dave and Karkat, along with the mention of an auspistice possibility in Alterniabound.

[8oy Skylark]

I'd say Terezi as well; she has the most solid evidence.