MSPA Forums
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 224

Thread: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

  1. #51
    Bass practice reminder PaulPower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Swansea, Wales, UK
    Posts
    1,261

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    This may be dangerous territory for me to enter into given I'm, for my sins, a John/Rose shipper and as I say I want to keep shipping out of the thread, but I'm going to try and analyse John and Rose's friendship, and how Rose sees John. On the other hand, thinking about the nature of their friendship is what led to me going down that path in the first place, so maybe it's not such a bad idea. Note: A lot of this thinking is based on the first four acts, rather than recent revelations in 5-2. I'd probably need to see them talk more before I get a real handle on the state of their friendship now. It's also possible that I'm projecting my own thoughts onto the characters, so feel free to warn me if I am. Anyway, here goes.

    John isn't stupid. He's a lot of things - foolish, naive, gullible, immature, undiplomatic (albeit not in a way that stops him making friends), possible low self-esteem - but there's a decent brain in there. He'd never be able to keep up his encyclopaedic knowledge of crappy movies without one. He was pretty insightful in his birthday letters to Rose and Dave. He worked out punchcard alchemy pretty neatly. Once he got used to the Trolls' antics, he became an effective counter-troller. He even has a nice line in sarcasm ("do you think that instead of telling me exactly why that is with a clear explanation, you can give me a series of really coy riddles about it and then sort of giggle?"). He's got a fairly large vocabulary, even if he uses it haphazardly. Kanaya never really gives him the benefit of the doubt here. Personally I think this is a brilliant pair of lines, out of context:

    GT: anyway, does that have any applicability to your cosmic interstellar astrojourney?
    GA: Okay Youre Even Dumber Than The Rose Human Thats Incredible Really
    Okay Kan, sure he doesn't use capital letters, but at least he uses long words and can punctuate correctly.

    So how does this play into how Rose sees him? Well, as well as liking him for being a nice guy who's open and friendly and helps her to open up a bit too, Rose seems to recognise that John's smarter than he looks - the same way he recognises there's a good, kind person beneath Rose's snarky exterior - it just needs to develop. They both think of the other as weird, but respect each other despite this. She doesn't spar with him verbally to the extent she does with Dave, but they have their moments. It's also interesting to note that she tries to get him to read more: she wants to help him develop his intellect. In fact, a lot of their conversations seem to carry the overhead that Rose wants John to better himself, to self-actualise and live up to his potential. Partly because that's how the game's supposed to work, but it also seems to be something she genuinely wants for him as well: she's quick to praise him when he does something clever. Essentially, she teaches John.

    Nominating John as leader also seems to play into this as well: not only because she feels his friendship skills and optimism make him well suited to the job, but because she wants him to take responsibility for something and develop his mind.
    Last edited by PaulPower; 10-31-2010 at 06:32 AM.

  2. #52
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,969

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    okay I guess RP and lecrab reposted theirs I might as well too?? although really, if i do end up doing more of these ill prob post em in the chat thread anyway

    this is basically me explaining why homestuck hasn't gotten any darker. rose hasnt gotten any darker, and all of that HOMESTUCK IS SUPER SERIOUS stuff is bunk, because its all predicated on rose having underwent some deep core changes for the SHADIER, when in fact, she has not

    observe


    Quote Originally Posted by Varinn View Post
    Yo I honestly had no idea what I was gonna write about for Rose when I said “im gonna do it!!” so I decided to bone up on some Old School Pages and I stumbled on to a fucking goldmine. Welcome to Logic Castle, I'll be your host, Baron Knowsshit


    the central guiding concept that links all of Roses' actions is simple. It's Agency.


    13 year old Rose Lalonde is powerless. Mostly because she's a 13 year old child! But also because she has engaged herself in conflict with an Authority Figure who controls the entire balance of power. She even lives on island, lacking agency to even leave! She's a creative, like most people lacking agency, because through music, crafts and writing she can create. She is the sole creator and decider, and has full agency over Creation. It is a liberating feeling, to create, and she cherishes it all the more because it is the only power she enjoys. Even when she engages in a “fight” with Mom, her only form of attack is threatening suicide, because her own life is the only thing she has power over.

    Her other hobbies are inextricably linked to this as well. The obsession with defacing Squiddles posters and shirts is her attempt at rebelling against Authority in general, and her fascination with Things From Beyond is because the entire concept behind Outer Gods is that their power is literally unimaginable. Nothing has agency over them, and Rose finds this concept exhilarating. Her use of psychoanalysis is less of a drive to learn the machinations of other people but to gain the upper hand in conversations with them, giving her power over them.

    So we've determined that Rose is powerless. She is desperate for it, and grabs it whenever possible, and however minor. So what happens when you put this person in a situation where ultimate, unstoppable power is at their fingertips? She doesn't even think about NOT taking the Thorns, and her first action is to destroy. But destroying enemies isn't good enough for Rose. Her theme isn't Power, it's Agency, and Agency implies you're acting under your own impulses. Rose quickly discovers that, because of the temporal imperative, she can't actually do anything that hasn't already happens. Someone has exerted ultimate authority over HER, the person with limitless power. Obviously, she is enraged. She discovers the source of this authority (Skaia/The game) and immediately goes to war with it.


    Rose hasn't changed, she only gained the power to fight against the authority that denies her agency.

  3. #53
    is a capybara. momatoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pilipinas (GMT+8)
    Posts
    3,409

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    At the same time, though, I can't help but feel concerned with Rose as, seeing this is the first time she has had any tangible independence and control over her life, this may have been too much initially for her to come to terms with. It's one thing to make your own decisions, it's another to run amok with power. This was at least my first impression when I saw the developments in her character; freedom is liberating yet also dangerous when exercised without thought. Rose is, thank gog, reasonable enough to realize this, but the first few glimpses into her personality was kind of scary.
    Hey there.

  4. #54

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Ooh, I love the idea of this thread! I was hoping that something like this would be made at some point or another. Maybe not now, but I'll definitely use this to analyze Dave at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by RappinPicard View Post
    And then here is my big analysis of all 4 kids:

    This... I LOVE this. Your connections make a lot of sense, and I love how you used their items to elaborate. Seriously, it'd be great to read more if you write any more!

  5. #55
    autoglassmasterclass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    world of dating and coolness
    Posts
    4,250

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Supercar Gautier View Post
    reminder that it's not cool to throw around the terms "bitch" and "attention whore" even when discussing very mean and/or vain female characters, lets make this thread and forum a no-misogyny zone
    I've always thought that these terms could apply to both genders, particularly the latter. The word "bitch" is used several times in the narrative, and honestly, when used in that context, "whore" doesn't mean anything more than "glutton". And "attention glutton" is lame. Karkat is a dick. Right? That's not misandry.

    Anyhoo, awesome text walls. This thread is already quite interesting.

  6. #56
    Witch from the Past and Future RappinPicard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Pronouns
    she/her/hers
    Posts
    1,167

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    I posted this in the mspa chat thread, and I'm gonna crosspost it here as well:

    Quote Originally Posted by RappinPicard View Post
    Karkat has a driving need for control. Representative of the superego, everything must conform to his conception of how it must happen. Like Dave, he views the world as deterministic, and views his own attempts to change it as destined to fail. Similar to Kanaya, Karkat has a driving need to be the smartest person in the room. However, unlike Kanaya who internalizes everything, Karkat externalizes it. Viewing himself as a tragic hero, Karkat believes that he is destined to fail at anything he tries.

    Similarly, Kanaya has the most in common with Karkat. She also tries to conform the world to her conceptions of how it should go. While Karkat externalizes everything, Kanaya internalizes what is happening around her. While Aradia and Dave are fatalistic about how time is going to go, Kanaya is fixated on how the timeline should go, and is frustrated by people who do not conform to how she thinks it should go.

    In this sense Karkat and Kanaya have the most in common. Both of them believe that they have all the answers and that everything would be perfect if everybody would just do what they are told. The only real difference between them is that Karkat externalizes his frustration while Kanaya internalizes it.
    I'm Liz.
    Twitter
    Tumblr

  7. #57
    Bass practice reminder PaulPower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Swansea, Wales, UK
    Posts
    1,261

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    That's pretty neat, but you keep using the phrase "Karkat externalises everything, Kanaya internalises everything" without quite explaining what it means. So it's left me a bit confused. Unless it's just "Karkat vents constantly, Kanaya bottles everything up." But it sounds like you mean something more complex than that. Could you elaborate?

    They do have a lot in common, though. Whenever someone (particularly John) ties them up in knots, they immediately assume that the other person's the idiot because they're the ones who know everything, how could they possibly be outwitted. Even Vriska seems more willing to accept her own fallibility.
    Last edited by PaulPower; 10-31-2010 at 10:46 PM.

  8. #58
    >:] Arcana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Not sold in stores
    Posts
    4,834

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    I don't know why everyone thinks Rose is "OMG EVIL" or "OMG CRAZY", I mean look at the situation where she is, and look at her last Game FAQs entry, she is disillusioned, angry, and wants to know what's going on. She is not going to sit there and be an animal locked in a cage, she is going bang the cage and kill the guards, janitor, whoever after she gets answers from them.

    It's not her that is insane and dangerous, it's Sburb that is.

    However she can possibly go drunk or mad with power, especially with that green sun, but as of now she is doing what she feels in her heart is the only right thing to do.

    She also has spent four months with John and Jade dead trying to find answers along with Dave who is now a sprite, which makes me wonder if she will be suspicious of him now that he is "enslaved" by Sburb. I am also wary of what the gods have told her, though I don't know why she would trust them other than her prior fascination with them. Perhaps they did do something that gained her trust, I don't think Rose is that easily naive when it comes to mutant tentacled gods who call themselves things like "Horrorterrors" and "The Foul Patrician of Misery". Perhaps this is a reflection of her rebellious nature, these gods seem to be "aligned" with chaos while Sburb is very much into order and procedure.

  9. #59

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    someone repost my thing i posted in the last thread.
    thanks

  10. #60
    Witch from the Past and Future RappinPicard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Pronouns
    she/her/hers
    Posts
    1,167

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 3 Sided Die View Post
    someone repost my thing i posted in the last thread.
    thanks
    No prob.

    I'm Liz.
    Twitter
    Tumblr

  11. #61

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    i love you RP

  12. #62

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    I don't know why everyone thinks Rose is "OMG EVIL" or "OMG CRAZY", I mean look at the situation where she is, and look at her last Game FAQs entry, she is disillusioned, angry, and wants to know what's going on. She is not going to sit there and be an animal locked in a cage, she is going bang the cage and kill the guards, janitor, whoever after she gets answers from them.

    It's not her that is insane and dangerous, it's Sburb that is.

    However she can possibly go drunk or mad with power, especially with that green sun, but as of now she is doing what she feels in her heart is the only right thing to do.

    She also has spent four months with John and Jade dead trying to find answers along with Dave who is now a sprite, which makes me wonder if she will be suspicious of him now that he is "enslaved" by Sburb. I am also wary of what the gods have told her, though I don't know why she would trust them other than her prior fascination with them. Perhaps they did do something that gained her trust, I don't think Rose is that easily naive when it comes to mutant tentacled gods who call themselves things like "Horrorterrors" and "The Foul Patrician of Misery". Perhaps this is a reflection of her rebellious nature, these gods seem to be "aligned" with chaos while Sburb is very much into order and procedure.
    If you go around breaking things and killing persons 8(for a given value of persons) it is not weird that people consider you crazy and/or evil even if you have reasons (N.B. usually crazy people have reasons for what they do, it is just that usually those reasons are illogical.

    It would help if Rose did explain why she trust the horrorterrors so much. At the moment the only thing she said - as far as I can remember - is that she don't think they are so nefarious as they are believed (or something of that value), but she never explained why she think so, as she never adequately explained why she destroyed the first gate, even in the FAQ she say that she is not sure of the reasons.
    FWIW I don't think she is crazy or evil, I think the HTs are using her, giving her suggestions to do things while at the same time making her believe that they are all her own ideas, things that she would have liked doing anyway probably, like breaking things and wrecking the game, and because Rose is more than a little arrogant (not that she lack reasons to be) she'll never doubt "her own" judgment and just assume she had good reasons to do what she did and keep going in that direction.

  13. #63
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,969

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    because they are the dersite equivalent of the skaian clouds

  14. #64
    >:] Arcana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Not sold in stores
    Posts
    4,834

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    She did go about and hurt some of the turtles, yes but I don't know if she did that out of initial rage or trying to find something underneath. When she lifted up the temple the turtles were shook out and into the water, she might also be impatient about this matter too and possibly has it in mind that nothing is going to matter in the end if things are this doomed and fucked up.

    That is a likely thing though that the Horrorterrors are influencing her in a fashion similar to Scratch and Vriska. However Rose being the rebellious type especially against authority such as her mother, a woman she has a difficult time trying to understand but somewhat things she nailed it down(if you think about it, that kind of perspective can be paralleled with an Elder God) I don't know how easily she would have submitted to them, if she is at all. She probably does know they are "using" her but she trusts them, as she believes they can help her. However her quest to find answers could change her perspective of who she trusts, or maybe make it more ambiguous or shady.

    By your description, a good way to put it would be they are encouraging her to do it perhaps? With Scratch and Vriska is was more like direct persuasion. Also keep in mind that Davesprite had also seen and listened to them, and he doesn't seem to have gone insane or used yet.

  15. #65

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Varinn View Post
    because they are the dersite equivalent of the skaian clouds
    But skaian clouds are impersonal (as far as we know), they don't tell you things, they show you them , in a basically random way, HTs are not, they are intelligent, and I assume, with an agenda, even Feferi knew that they don't tell you everything they know.

    Also, as someone else said , Pre dreamself Rose didn't want to use the grimoire as a weapon, because she knew that such things are too dangerous to be used, post dreamslef rose had no problem combining it with the needles to make a weapon of it, a IMHO worrying change of perspective that is still unexplained.

  16. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,969

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sebastian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varinn View Post
    because they are the dersite equivalent of the skaian clouds
    But skaian clouds are impersonal (as far as we know), they don't tell you things, they show you them , in a basically random way, HTs are not, they are intelligent, and I assume, with an agenda, even Feferi knew that they don't tell you everything they know.
    they're just two sides of the same coin

  17. #67

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana View Post
    By your description, a good way to put it would be they are encouraging her to do it perhaps? With Scratch and Vriska is was more like direct persuasion. Also keep in mind that Davesprite had also seen and listened to them, and he doesn't seem to have gone insane or used yet.
    Yes, they are using suggestions more than direct order, so that in the end what she does seemed to be her idea all along.

    Actually one of the thing that make me suspicious is that one of the first thing she does is trying to persuade Dave to listen to them.

    And another thing, but probably that is just me being paranoiac. Before future Dave goes back she say if he remember their plan, now "go back and stop John from dying" is not what I'd call a "plan". Maybe it was just Rose being Rose, but maybe there is something else futureDave, now davesprite, is/was supposed to do?

  18. #68

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Varinn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sebastian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varinn View Post
    because they are the dersite equivalent of the skaian clouds
    But skaian clouds are impersonal (as far as we know), they don't tell you things, they show you them , in a basically random way, HTs are not, they are intelligent, and I assume, with an agenda, even Feferi knew that they don't tell you everything they know.
    they're just two sides of the same coin
    But one side is scarred.

  19. #69
    >:] Arcana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Not sold in stores
    Posts
    4,834

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Huh, then I wonder how Alt future Dave started listening to them in the first place, he does say they are monstrosities but doesn't seem to say much else about them.

  20. #70
    BlueMagic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    dancing with myself
    Posts
    555

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    You're forgetting that Eridan is also a massive attention whore and also very dramatic; his clinginess is probably another way to get attention, but the thought of his entire race's mass death/Sollux(Who has the lowest blood color, also a land dweller)'s implied victory over him(I'm leaning toward's Sollux's victory since Eridan wanted a rematch in the flash) affected him to a degree that he's beginning to realize how pathetic(In his opinion) he really was, but the others just don't see it.
    Eridan's "Hey baby you're way too good for them let me show you who you really are" looks like Eridan's trying to take Rose under his wing and have himself feel better about himself.
    Last edited by BlueMagic; 11-02-2010 at 01:01 PM.

  21. #71
    Heir of Heart Altum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Land of Hills and Rain
    Posts
    2,471

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    A thought coming out of the recent update with Equius: you know, Dave really ought to have more sympathy for other people's weirdness, given his brother's puppet fetish and his own freakshow entourage that creeped out the Imps. He's still being judgmental about it, though; before he justified it behind a veneer of irony, rooted in his inability to accept that his Bro was a creep, but now he's showing resentment for his Bro, too.

    I think he's like Rose*--awake and aware of some things, but still not at peace with them, because his Dreamself was woken up without resolving any of his issues. What it comes down to is that Dave has a wary, superior attitude towards anyone who actually cares about anything instead of handling it through several layers of irony (as symbolized by the shitty SBaHJ heads) and it keeps him from being able to commit to responsibility the way Davesprite did. Davesprite took risks--the important thing about time travel is not to think about it too much, right?--but Dave is relying on outside help to construct elaborate timeloops, because he's afraid to die. A really big contrast to Davesprite and Aradia.

    ___

    *Which is my theory on Rose, that waking up prematurely has led her to some realizations (she likes wizards as much as her Mom) but she's still wrapped up in her issues (she still thinks Mom is doing it all to spite her). Playing the rain is assumably what she did to wake up in the other timeline (Future Dave mentioned what a huge pain in the ass it was) and I've figured that's what Jaspersprite thinks it's so important for her to do it.
    ___

    And while I'm wall-of-texting--it occurs to me that all three kids have their alchemy binge come after a partial awakening that re-orients their view on their guardian, and the alchemy itself uses stuff they've reclaimed from that Guardian. John makes the Serious Business Goggles and alchemizes his Wise Guy Suit using the suit Dad bought for his birthday, after he has his freakout in Dad's room and the Prospit dream where he struggles to open his eyes. Dave notes that Future Dave probably alchemized his suit using a scaled-up puppet suit, and then he combines it with a smuppet and the posters that were covering his SBaHJ heads. And Rose creates her initial needlewands using one of Mom's statues and her outfit using the velvet pillow that supported the notarized letter from the Fridge of Passive Aggression.

    (They also create some wholly useless shit they discard forever--the Barber's Best Friend, the fetal Mr. T, the bronzed vaccumbrella I forget the name of. This may represent things about their Guardians that aren't right for them or something; and there's probably ways this theory could be extended to analyze their future outfits but I'd rather leave this part as a solid 'hmm that's interesting' than a rickety elaborate theory.)

  22. #72

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Just throwing out an idea here but it was ever mentioned how the kids and trolls weapons seems to fit to the character and/or personality of the user?

    John is probably the best example, the hammer is a solid weapon, strong, reliable, practical and yet unsubtle and uncomplicated, you just pick it up and smash things with it, as a fanfic put it "john is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but as a hammer he don't have to" (then it went on saying that hammers works better with nails, that are like little needles but that was a RosexJohn fanfic so take it with a grain of salt ).
    Also, John being John he was able to take a weapon that is essentially, well, a little boring, and make it FUN; the POGO HAMMER, The WRINKLEFUCKER, the TELESCOPIC SASSACRUSHER, they not look really practical, they even sound a little silly, but damn if they don't look fun to use.

    As a last point, a hammer works as a weapon but it is first at all a tool, it is meant to have a use outside combat, in the same way, John is (or at least was), the least combat capable of the four kids.

    Ok, maybe I'll do some of the others later (but no way I'm doing all 16 of them) but if someone would give it a try or pick a different take on John (or just say that this is stupid) is more than welcome to it.

  23. #73
    Heir of Heart Altum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Land of Hills and Rain
    Posts
    2,471

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Nah, it's solid. Although probably in the way where it's possible to make those connections, and over time Hussie has deliberately found ways to accentuate them and minimize the dissonances, rather than it being elaborately constructed from the start. And I suspect things like Aradia having whipkind was motivated almost entirely by an Indiana Jones joke, etc.

  24. #74

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Altum View Post
    (They also create some wholly useless shit they discard forever--the Barber's Best Friend, the fetal Mr. T, the bronzed vaccumbrella I forget the name of. This may represent things about their Guardians that aren't right for them or something; and there's probably ways this theory could be extended to analyze their future outfits but I'd rather leave this part as a solid 'hmm that's interesting' than a rickety elaborate theory.)
    You raise some good point but about this last one, I asn't there so I don't know but the alchemy sessions were all from Andrew's ideas or come from readers suggestions? because that would change how we can see them. For example I always thought that of all the kids, John is the one that had the most ingenious alchemitizing ideas, the ghost gloves, the healing gushers, the serious business goggles, even the barber best friend was pretty cool, while Dave and Rose wasted a lot of time and grist with amber smuppets and magnetic wodka and all that other crap. Of course if those were all user suggestion... well, it make it less important.

  25. #75
    Heir of Heart Altum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Land of Hills and Rain
    Posts
    2,471

    Re: Character Psychology, Development and Interaction Speculation Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sebastian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Altum View Post
    (They also create some wholly useless shit they discard forever--the Barber's Best Friend, the fetal Mr. T, the bronzed vaccumbrella I forget the name of. This may represent things about their Guardians that aren't right for them or something; and there's probably ways this theory could be extended to analyze their future outfits but I'd rather leave this part as a solid 'hmm that's interesting' than a rickety elaborate theory.)
    You raise some good point but about this last one, I asn't there so I don't know but the alchemy sessions were all from Andrew's ideas or come from readers suggestions? because that would change how we can see them. For example I always thought that of all the kids, John is the one that had the most ingenious alchemitizing ideas, the ghost gloves, the healing gushers, the serious business goggles, even the barber best friend was pretty cool, while Dave and Rose wasted a lot of time and grist with amber smuppets and magnetic wodka and all that other crap. Of course if those were all user suggestion... well, it make it less important.
    Dave and Rose's alchemy binges came long after the suggestion boxes were closed. Andrew said after a point the suggestion boxes just became a wall of every possible thing ever being suggested and he was just doing whatever he wanted anyway; I'm not sure when John's alchemy fell relative to that point.

Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •