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Thread: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

  1. #2001

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    The White King is not the fifth exile. The White King is Lord English. This is a theory I've had for a while, but never had anything solid to implicate him with it... until Doc Scratch mentioned him. He'd fit into the coat.

  2. #2002
    That Lecherous Old Billiard lexavian's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Have we ever seen AR command Dave?
    Theory:WK is dave's commanding exile
    Avatar by me, scratchified by ashdenej.

  3. #2003

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    IDE/Theory:
    P1. Doc Scratch's head looks like a Pawn.
    P2. When a Pawn promotes, it is removed from the board and replaced by a Queen.
    P3. Nobody said Lord English was male.
    C. Doc Scratch needs to die by "promotion", thus creating Lord English, who is female.

    Yes, a load of crap, I know. Lord is a male title!

  4. #2004
    Deathwatch Grand Master HarMegidon's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    IDE/Theory: The epilogue of Homestuck would take place with 6 surviving trolls (Karkat, Kanaya, Vriska, Sollux, Terezi, and Aradia) and the four kids, all at the age of 25 years.

  5. #2005

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Quote Originally Posted by HarMegidon View Post
    IDE/Theory: The epilogue of Homestuck would take place with 6 surviving trolls (Karkat, Kanaya, Vriska, Sollux, Terezi, and Aradia) and the four kids, all at the age of 25 years.
    Not only that, but John will name his kids James, Lily and Albus Severus.

  6. #2006

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Crossposting from Romspec:

    Quote Originally Posted by BlastYoBoots View Post
    The possibility of the Great Undoing resetting everything instead of merely destroying it provides a very, very special bit of motive. Specifically, Lord English's motive.

    If the Great Undoing merely destroyed everything, a time-traveling demon who feeds on universes would have no reason to cause it. But a reset?

    The situation Doc Scratch has facilitated is as follows:

    - The Green Sun, which exists outside of time, will be destroyed.
    - A special situation will cause a Scratch, and around the same time, a cross-dimensional Rift.
    - The Great Undoing is threatening to take place.
    - Lord English has been brought into the Trolls' universe.

    If the Great Undoing is a multi-universal reset, then creation - beyond a certain point - will restart minus the power source of First Guardians, who ostensibly are charged with protecting planets that would bear life. Reality will unfold, from far earlier universes (possibly even the first ones), without First Guardians to safeguard them. And a time-traveling Demon who feeds on universes would have access to the very beginning of this chain.

    Lord English's plan could be to usurp creation from its very beginning, deprived of its First Guardian protectors, and do with it as he wishes!


    That's a motive if I ever saw one.
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  7. #2007
    Deathwatch Grand Master HarMegidon's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlastYoBoots View Post
    Crossposting from Romspec:

    Quote Originally Posted by BlastYoBoots View Post
    The possibility of the Great Undoing resetting everything instead of merely destroying it provides a very, very special bit of motive. Specifically, Lord English's motive.

    If the Great Undoing merely destroyed everything, a time-traveling demon who feeds on universes would have no reason to cause it. But a reset?

    The situation Doc Scratch has facilitated is as follows:

    - The Green Sun, which exists outside of time, will be destroyed.
    - A special situation will cause a Scratch, and around the same time, a cross-dimensional Rift.
    - The Great Undoing is threatening to take place.
    - Lord English has been brought into the Trolls' universe.

    If the Great Undoing is a multi-universal reset, then creation - beyond a certain point - will restart minus the power source of First Guardians, who ostensibly are charged with protecting planets that would bear life. Reality will unfold, from far earlier universes (possibly even the first ones), without First Guardians to safeguard them. And a time-traveling Demon who feeds on universes would have access to the very beginning of this chain.

    Lord English's plan could be to usurp creation from its very beginning, deprived of its First Guardian protectors, and do with it as he wishes!


    That's a motive if I ever saw one.
    Note the Undoing part. Most people Undo if they want to do it again better. And of course, this explains why Doc Scratch wants to die. His very nature is against LE's will.

  8. #2008
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    I've been thinking about the trolls genetic heritage, especially since the existence of the ancestors were revealed. After thinking about it, as well as what Karkat said to John following his ectobiology journey, I've developed the following:
    IDE/Theory: Each troll's paradox clone was created by a specific and unique pairing of the ancestors that relates to a relationship between the ancestors (that did/will develop). The Red Team trolls were all created by matesprit relationships, and the Blue Team were created by the kismesis relationships.

    Further IDE: DualscarMindfang=Eridan. Besides being between them in the hemospectrum, Eridan has both a domineering attitude and a superiority complex, combined a sexual fetish for submitting to others, qualities that could reflect the pairing of Mr. Next to the Queen But Not In That Wway and Ms. I'll Fuck Whoever I Want Status Be Damned.

    Even More IDE: MindfangCavalreaper: This has been pretty heavily implied by both Vriska's actions and by Mindfang's offhand remarks about loving lowbloods. Perhaps the Cavalreaper was a noble and dashing warrior, someone that Tavros falls short of (in Vriska's mind, anyways.) Anyways, I'm guessing their pairing created Terezi. She's cunning and manipulative, but she also cares about her friends, and has a sensitive side.
    your fairy god troll is all up into slaying the wicked rage with some motherfuckin mirth

  9. #2009
    >:] Arcana's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlastYoBoots View Post
    Crossposting from Romspec:

    Quote Originally Posted by BlastYoBoots View Post
    The possibility of the Great Undoing resetting everything instead of merely destroying it provides a very, very special bit of motive. Specifically, Lord English's motive.

    If the Great Undoing merely destroyed everything, a time-traveling demon who feeds on universes would have no reason to cause it. But a reset?

    The situation Doc Scratch has facilitated is as follows:

    - The Green Sun, which exists outside of time, will be destroyed.
    - A special situation will cause a Scratch, and around the same time, a cross-dimensional Rift.
    - The Great Undoing is threatening to take place.
    - Lord English has been brought into the Trolls' universe.

    If the Great Undoing is a multi-universal reset, then creation - beyond a certain point - will restart minus the power source of First Guardians, who ostensibly are charged with protecting planets that would bear life. Reality will unfold, from far earlier universes (possibly even the first ones), without First Guardians to safeguard them. And a time-traveling Demon who feeds on universes would have access to the very beginning of this chain.

    Lord English's plan could be to usurp creation from its very beginning, deprived of its First Guardian protectors, and do with it as he wishes!


    That's a motive if I ever saw one.
    Interesting, however.

    Remember that LE is "already here", in other words already in the Trollverse that HAS First Gaurdians. However maybe he has to resort to a petty mob of crazy people because of them and have his puppet FG who is also crazy to run them because of FGs?

  10. #2010

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Rose uses terms like "banished" to refer to Jack Noir's entrance into the troll universe, but Doc Scratch, and indeed the narration, are more cagey and ambiguous. What if Jack catches wind of the Scratch and hops universes willingly to escape it? ...Then again, Doc Scratch says Jack's exit has nothing to do with the Scratch, so maybe it's related to Jade's fourth wall plan. Get Jack out of the way so they have a clear shot at the Scratch, then hop universes themselves to escape it.

    But, at the moment of the Critical Event...
    http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005119
    "The most important character in Homestuck fondly regards the miracle of a new beginning."
    Jade's lab dropping wasn't exactly a new beginning, so this line may instead refer to the concurrent Critical Event - further evidence for the theory that the Critical Event is the Scratch, which therefore also hits the trolls' session. ...Which would logically be necessary anyway, given that the trolls' session and home universe are completely entangled with the kids'. Possibly the influence of the Scratch is also able to spread through a spacetime rift?

    Of course, if the trolls' universe is to be wiped, then I wonder what the point of Doc Scratch summoning Lord English ever was (aside from the fact that he's already there). But Lord English's time powers surely mean that it makes little difference to him whether his prey exists in a dead timeline or not, given that he's summoned into these universes from the outside anyway. It might even be preferable.

  11. #2011
    >:] Arcana's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Maybe English has a life outside of eating universes?

    Though maybe the purpose of all these convoluted time loops and knots within paradox space is to cause such a thing.

    Unless of course somehow they manage to not doom themselves, causing two parallel paradox spaces existing side-by-side. I thought it was always an interesting idea that the kids and trolls say "FU" to the whole doomed timeline thing and manage to use doomed timelines to pry themselves off predestination.

  12. #2012
    Itch and Scratch WillSpark's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    IDE/Theory: Okay, so just to recap here, the way the kids can survive the Scratch is some explicit way to avoid the destruction of their current universe at the reset. This can be infered to be the rift that allows them to make it to the Troll's session at whatever point that would be. My best guess is the critical moment at 00:00:00.

    The Scratch will be caused by using the quills of the Denizen from Jade's session, which is best presumed to be the Quills of the Echidna, which are currently with the rabbit, which is with CD?, and gives us several options of these quills actually getting to the player, John or Dave, and given the symbolism, Dave seems more likely, who literally scratches the disc. This will be after the successful destruction of the Green Sun through means not fully yet revealed but it is known that Aradia will potentially be there to assist in the plan.

    We know for sure that some time presumably just before the Scratch occurs, John will be in LoHaC and have his first/final chat with Karkat that we are aware of, just before the plan is set in motion for them to arrive in the troll session, so he will at least be present for the Scratch if not the one who causes it, and if it turns out to be necessary, so will the rest of them, circumstances notwithtanding, all finally coming together in person in the same place, something that has yet to occur in the entire span of Homestuck. I personally am very happy and eagerly awaiting more information to help clear up these developments.

    EDIT: Moments after writing this, I remembered and had a revelation.

    IDE/Theory: That fourth wall that Karkat had Jade draw/captcha on orders from her future self is going to be very, very important in getting to the troll's session to avoid the reset. It makes the most plausible sense and there's every reason to think so. The only real question is to exactly how, though combining that wall with any of the items we know about could prove to be a very simple means of traversing time and space, and even universes.
    Last edited by WillSpark; 03-09-2011 at 03:27 AM.

  13. #2013

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Hussie totally got the idea of Pedoc Scratch from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8s6UQ9uZd8 .

    SPILL THE BEANS

  14. #2014

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Here's a thought: Jadesprite will cause the rift.

    This is based on the theory that all sprites have access to all portions of their prototypings, including memories. We don't see Davesprite acting too much like a crow because a crow is STUPID, and the other two sprites were prototyped with things inanimate as well as Nanna and Jaspers.... but on some level, behind all that trauma, Jadesprite still has Becquerel in there somewhere. And Becquerel KNOWS he can cause the rift because he is a first guardian and has just enough of a powerboost by becoming the sprite.

    Further thought: Who's the only sprite that hasn't metaphorically or literally left their player? The matronly, loving nannasprite! It'll be up to HER to snap Jadesprite out of her trauma, and it will be up to JOHN to ask her to snap jadesprite out of her trauma, thus paving the way for Jadesprite to do somehting awesome, i.e. save the kids by making THE RIFT.

    Futher further thought: While Bec Noir has the same ability, he does NOT have the memories of Becquerel. He wouldn't know about his rift-power until after seeing Jadesprite do it, and even then he wouldn't understand the subtleties of rift power. So he makes like a tree and leaves into who knows where, versus Jadesprite's instant transport to the troll session. And he spend who knows how long figuring out his powers in who knows where before coming to the troll's session... exactly ten minutes and twenty five seconds before Jadesprite and the kids will arrive.

    Further further further thought: The Bunny will have to cause the scratch all by his lonesome. Poor bunny.

  15. #2015
    Human of Alfandra simon.clarkstone's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Theory #1 that has probably been said before on a chat thread: this isn't the first time the game has been reset. (Anyone know what the TVTropes name for that twist is? I have seen/heard it in other places.)

    Quote Originally Posted by WillSpark View Post
    IDE/Theory: Okay, so just to recap here, the way the kids can survive the Scratch is some explicit way to avoid the destruction of their current universe at the reset. This can be infered to be the rift that allows them to make it to the Troll's session at whatever point that would be.
    AIUI, they are planning it but we don't yet know if they succeed.

    This is a hard reset. It will reboot the conditions in your universe well before you began playing the game.
    I am going to guess that it will branch just before the the (probable) earliest point of interference: the arrival of the Frog Temple and Bec.

    This is the first time that there has been any branching time travel outside of a session. If we have seen the broken top of the kids' timeline, we now know that is the scratch.

    The broken top of the troll's timeline can't be the kids' Scratch. "CAA: the direct effects 0f a scratch are limited t0 the sessi0n inv0king it "

    Theory #3: There is never a scratch in the kids' session, only in the trolls'. (If we haven't seen a broken top to the kids' timeline.) Jack and Gamzee are dumped in the trolls' session and the Scratch is triggered to reset it and thereby obliterate them both.
    Last edited by simon.clarkstone; 03-09-2011 at 08:18 AM.
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  16. #2016
    Prince of Doom NeoPhantom's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    How about fusing the window with Trollian? Would that not create a window between the two world allowing them to travel to either world at different points in time as Trollian has allowed the trolls to see into the kids universe?

  17. #2017

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    They could always combine the fourth wall with a summoning window.

  18. #2018

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    So they're going to steal Andrew from us?

  19. #2019
    Surrounded by owls A Fan's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    More like escape into whatever transitional metanarrative universe Andrew's author avatar inhabits. Though I suppose that would be like imaginary people trying to escape into the real world, and that never ends well...

    That said, IDE/Theory: The Scratch will not be unleashed properly. After all, when has anything ever worked as planned in Homestuck? In any case, the kids may decide that a hard reset is unacceptable when compared to one of the myriad improper ways of unleashing the Beat Mesa's energy.
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  20. #2020

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Ah yes, the good old Unspoken Plan Guarantee.

    Perhaps Doc Scratch is completely Genre Savvy, and it is because of the UPG that he is not volunteering any more information than he has to.

  21. #2021
    >:] Arcana's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    I wonder if the end result of all of these things will be our universe, which is a rewritten form of the chum's universe with Sburb erased so that we can continue living.

    The entire cast of Homestuck died for you sins.

  22. #2022

    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    IDE/Theory: Lord English is an evil version of the 6th doctor

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  23. #2023
    Omphaloskeptic Keratin's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samael View Post
    IDE/Theory: Lord English is an evil version of the 6th doctor
    Look at that Coat.
    The Sixth Doctor doesn't need to be any more evil than he already is.

  24. #2024
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Quote Originally Posted by simon.clarkstone View Post
    Theory #1 that has probably been said before on a chat thread: this isn't the first time the game has been reset. (Anyone know what the TVTropes name for that twist is? I have seen/heard it in other places.)

    Quote Originally Posted by WillSpark View Post
    IDE/Theory: Okay, so just to recap here, the way the kids can survive the Scratch is some explicit way to avoid the destruction of their current universe at the reset. This can be infered to be the rift that allows them to make it to the Troll's session at whatever point that would be.
    AIUI, they are planning it but we don't yet know if they succeed.

    This is a hard reset. It will reboot the conditions in your universe well before you began playing the game.
    I am going to guess that it will branch just before the the (probable) earliest point of interference: the arrival of the Frog Temple and Bec.

    This is the first time that there has been any branching time travel outside of a session. If we have seen the broken top of the kids' timeline, we now know that is the scratch.

    The broken top of the troll's timeline can't be the kids' Scratch. "CAA: the direct effects 0f a scratch are limited t0 the sessi0n inv0king it "

    Theory #3: There is never a scratch in the kids' session, only in the trolls'. (If we haven't seen a broken top to the kids' timeline.) Jack and Gamzee are dumped in the trolls' session and the Scratch is triggered to reset it and thereby obliterate them both.
    But Aradia said the Scratch forced Jack out of hiding. That probably means he went to the Troll's session to escape it.

  25. #2025
    Ranger of Relative Dimentions pimudragonfeline's Avatar
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    Re: IDE/Theory Thread 18: John's fraymotif is a pie banjo. Pass it on.

    Working Concept of Hemospectrum Genetics:

    Even more Complex Genetics:
    Last edited by pimudragonfeline; 03-09-2011 at 11:50 PM.

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