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Thread: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

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  2. #2002
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    @C2710:

    I agree with your second point, but I strongly disagree with your first one. Using a thesaurus is a good idea at times, but often - as in the case of your first example - it does nothing but make a sentence more frustrating to read. It doesn't really make it clearer, in fact it's usually more difficult to read.

    I don't write, but I do read a lot, and nothing is more frustrating than a sentence which is collapsing under the weight of its own verbosity.

    Sorry if this reads a little harshly, but I couldn't really think of a way to word it better.

    Also, if you rely on a thesaurus too much you'll end up looking foolish when you use a word that's listed in it incorrectly and someone calls you out on it.
    Last edited by QRQD; 02-23-2011 at 10:02 AM. Reason: added that last sentence there

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    markedly inferior C20710's Avatar
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by QRQD View Post
    @C2710:

    I agree with your second point, but I strongly disagree with your first one. Using a thesaurus is a good idea at times, but often - as in the case of your first example - it does nothing but make a sentence more frustrating to read. It doesn't really make it clearer, in fact it's usually more difficult to read.

    I don't write, but I do read a lot, and nothing is more frustrating than a sentence which is collapsing under the weight of its own verbosity.

    Sorry if this reads a little harshly, but I couldn't really think of a way to word it better.
    /blush

    Maybe. I actually talk like that irl though so I appreciate it when others do the same. At any rate, I don't see it as difficult to read...I might have cut the word "haphazardly" on a second pass to make it less verbose as you suggested. Still, not being an authority on the subject by any meaningful standard, I defer to anyone with the experience needed to make that judgement. I *will* keep your suggestion in mind, just fyi, and by all means, be just as harsh with me as you feel the situation warrants.

    Are there any other criticisms you could give me in a similarly forceful manner?
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    Self-Appointed Literary Critic mienrose's Avatar
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by QRQD View Post
    @C2710:

    I agree with your second point, but I strongly disagree with your first one. Using a thesaurus is a good idea at times, but often - as in the case of your first example - it does nothing but make a sentence more frustrating to read. It doesn't really make it clearer, in fact it's usually more difficult to read.

    I don't write, but I do read a lot, and nothing is more frustrating than a sentence which is collapsing under the weight of its own verbosity.

    Sorry if this reads a little harshly, but I couldn't really think of a way to word it better.

    Also, if you rely on a thesaurus too much you'll end up looking foolish when you use a word that's listed in it incorrectly and someone calls you out on it.
    Seconded. Thesaurus digging is RISKY and I wouldn't recommend it unless you really desperately need a word you don't already have. (In an MSPA context - thesaurusing can be handy for Rose dialogue, because she talks like she's going to collapse under the weight of her own verbosity all the time. I'd avoid it in straight prose though.)

    And actually kA I like the way you use words already! I especially like your focus on the image of blood rushing through the body in the first paragraph. I think you have some interesting ideas!

    I'm going to make the opposite suggestion to C20710 (this is a risk of asking for crit, critics always disagree about everything) and suggest that you experiment with toning down your use of language a little. Although it's very satisfying to write extremes of emotion and to convey them in an extreme way, the danger of going too far is that you can alienate your reader - they get so lost in the style that they lose track of the actual feelings you want to describe. A phrase like 'hearts, pierced by spears of despair and swords of woe leaked their lives out to the oceans, never dying but locked into their own perpetual end, beating their last second after second with no end in sight' is a tough read with all those subclauses and images; sometimes simpler words are stronger.

    It's a balance, of course - 'and then Karkat was sad ' doesn't convey much of anything. I used to practice writing the same scene twice, trying to write it completely differently each time, just to see what I could get out of it. Setting yourself challenges like that isn't a bad way to teach yourself new things.

    Hope this was useful. Keep at it, you - I'm interested to see what else you can do.
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by C20710 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by QRQD View Post
    @C2710:

    I agree with your second point, but I strongly disagree with your first one. Using a thesaurus is a good idea at times, but often - as in the case of your first example - it does nothing but make a sentence more frustrating to read. It doesn't really make it clearer, in fact it's usually more difficult to read.

    I don't write, but I do read a lot, and nothing is more frustrating than a sentence which is collapsing under the weight of its own verbosity.

    Sorry if this reads a little harshly, but I couldn't really think of a way to word it better.
    /blush

    Maybe. I actually talk like that irl though so I appreciate it when others do the same. At any rate, I don't see it as difficult to read...I might have cut the word "haphazardly" on a second pass to make it less verbose as you suggested. Still, not being an authority on the subject by any meaningful standard, I defer to anyone with the experience needed to make that judgement. I *will* keep your suggestion in mind, just fyi, and by all means, be just as harsh with me as you feel the situation warrants.

    Are there any other criticisms you could give me in a similarly forceful manner?
    No worries, I tend to overuse complex language as well. It's just important to toe the line between using your vocabulary and obfuscating what you're actually trying to say.

    Also I have an odd, irrational hatred for thesauruses.

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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by QRQD View Post
    No worries, I tend to overuse complex language as well. It's just important to toe the line between using your vocabulary and obfuscating what you're actually trying to say.

    Also I have an odd, irrational hatred for thesauruses.
    Blood oozed through crevices of black bone, seeping through channels eroded by centuries of an unrelenting current.
    Would this meet with your approval? I ask as much for myself as for Blood (remember Blood? lol)
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by PingZing View Post
    Author -This story intrigues and frustrates me. Because I don't know what's going on yet, but really want to.
    I don't really know how I feel about your Tavros. I'm having a hard time picturing him speaking forcefully and haltingly at the same time. It just...doesn't...make sense. Minor problem though.


    Frustrating people is fun.

    But yes, me and Tavros have issues. It's mostly because I meant for him to be more assertive, like Vriska wanted him to be. I am not good at writing future Tavros.

    Soooo, setting explanation time!

    Aftermath - What the Fuck Is Going On?


    Okay I think I covered most of the basic points. The rest are plot points.

    Like Tavros' new badassery.

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    Surprisingly, still not dead kaoticAntagonist's Avatar
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    wow, thanks for the help. i think i will try to rewrite it and see if i can't make it more about karkat this time.
    Last edited by kaoticAntagonist; 02-23-2011 at 11:52 AM.
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by PingZing View Post
    Feedback time!
    Quote Originally Posted by A Fan
    EDIT: Oh Gog, why is this a page topper...
    Because it is awesome fun times. I'm eager to see more, but I do have a question; why is Redblood crying at the end there? Didn't quite understand that.
    As noted in the story, Redblood wasn't crying, and anyone who suggests otherwise might wake up to find a sickle lodged in his/her brain. However, if tears were present, which they weren't, it would be out of both relief and certain less-than-pleasant memories that have yet to be touched upon in the story. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go be less of a good writer for a bit, at least until my characters stop threatening to kill me. (I wonder if Andrew ever has this problem...)
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by kaoticAntagonist View Post
    wo, thanks for the help. i think i will try to rewrite it and see if i can't make it more about karkat this time.
    Hooray for writing newbie solidarity? Maybe a little presuming on my part...
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by C20710 View Post
    Blood oozed through crevices of black bone, seeping through channels eroded by centuries of an unrelenting current.
    Would this meet with your approval? I ask as much for myself as for Blood (remember Blood? lol)
    That does read much more naturally, yeah, though i'd drop the "an" that comes third from last. I'm not really an expert on writing though, just a reader who knows what he likes and what he doesn't, so I'm not sure you should be seeking my approval.

    And, oh, right, there was a fanfic buried somewhere in this debate on language. I may as well address that while I'm ranting.

    @kA: I really like the approach that this fic takes with trying to get inside Karkat's head, but it was bogged down a little by the incredibly flowery prose. I would recommend editing out some of the more unnecessary imagery (such as the line about "spears of despair and swords of woe"), especially since you're writing for the typically blunt, unsubtle Karkat. Also, go back over your punctuation - your sentences tend to run on a little and your commas occasionally seem oddly placed.

    Once again, I'm not an author, editor, or anything else even approaching qualified to give out this advice. I'm just an engineering student who reads a lot. My advice is probably embarrassingly amateurish, so please take it with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by QRQD; 02-23-2011 at 11:42 AM.

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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by mienrose View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by QRQD View Post
    I agree with your second point, but I strongly disagree with your first one. Using a thesaurus is a good idea at times, but often - as in the case of your first example - it does nothing but make a sentence more frustrating to read. It doesn't really make it clearer, in fact it's usually more difficult to read.
    Seconded. Thesaurus digging is RISKY and I wouldn't recommend it unless you really desperately need a word you don't already have. (In an MSPA context - thesaurusing can be handy for Rose dialogue, because she talks like she's going to collapse under the weight of her own verbosity all the time. I'd avoid it in straight prose though.)
    Um why is everyone assuming that a thesaurus gives you bigger words? I keep one open when I write because I find myself using mundane words over and over again. It's not that I need the meaning of a word; I never use a word in a fic that I don't thoroughly know and actually use in conversation. What happens with me is, I get one word in my head and go "augh I want to stop saying "goon", but I JUST CAN'T", so okay, what are my options here?
    According to thesaurus.com, I've got
    bozo, bruiser, dope, gorilla, hood, hooligan, jerk, lummox, moron, nincompoop, ninny, sap, strong-arm, thug, tough guy
    So then I just go "Okay, which of these would be known to my character?", and then "Which of those would he be likely to use given his speech patterns?"
    Problem Sleuth would probably use bozo, dope, moron, thug, tough guy.
    Spades Slick would probably use most of the same language, but place an insult in front or several of them thrown together in a stream of profanity.
    Hysterical Dame might use hooligan, lummox, etc.

    So basically I can only argue for the thesaurus, with the caveat that nobody should ever write a word they don't have a good understanding of already, and that you can't just grab any synonym and have it fit.
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by Path View Post
    Um why is everyone assuming that a thesaurus gives you bigger words?
    Quote Originally Posted by QRQD View Post
    Also I have an odd, irrational hatred for thesauruses.
    That's it, really.

    I focused on bigger because that's the trap writers can fall into really easily, although really the point is that you shouldn't use a thesaurus as a crutch while writing. You obviously don't though, so good for you.
    Last edited by QRQD; 02-23-2011 at 12:07 PM. Reason: I need to think, then post. I've got this backward.

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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by Path View Post
    Um why is everyone assuming that a thesaurus gives you bigger words? I keep one open when I write because I find myself using mundane words over and over again. It's not that I need the meaning of a word; I never use a word in a fic that I don't thoroughly know and actually use in conversation. What happens with me is, I get one word in my head and go "augh I want to stop saying "goon", but I JUST CAN'T", so okay, what are my options here?
    According to thesaurus.com, I've got
    bozo, bruiser, dope, gorilla, hood, hooligan, jerk, lummox, moron, nincompoop, ninny, sap, strong-arm, thug, tough guy
    So then I just go "Okay, which of these would be known to my character?", and then "Which of those would he be likely to use given his speech patterns?"
    Problem Sleuth would probably use bozo, dope, moron, thug, tough guy.
    Spades Slick would probably use most of the same language, but place an insult in front or several of them thrown together in a stream of profanity.
    Hysterical Dame might use hooligan, lummox, etc.

    So basically I can only argue for the thesaurus, with the caveat that nobody should ever write a word they don't have a good understanding of already, and that you can't just grab any synonym and have it fit.
    pssst. Thank you.

    That's exactly the thesaurus' proper use. I don't always remember all the words I know, you know? I can't think of any reason to limit your writing by all your memory yeilds in a given session.

    That said, if you're depending on a thesaurus to compensate for lack of content then you've got a bigger problem than wordy prose.

    In my humblest of opinions.
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Oh gog, I just came up with an IDEA. If I wasn't studying for the SAT right now, I'd post a pesterfic between red!Rose and green!John.

    Quote Originally Posted by QRQD View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by C20710 View Post
    Blood oozed through crevices of black bone, seeping through channels eroded by centuries of an unrelenting current.
    Would this meet with your approval? I ask as much for myself as for Blood (remember Blood? lol)
    That does read much more naturally, yeah, though i'd drop the "an" that comes third from last. I'm not really an expert on writing though, just a reader who knows what he likes and what he doesn't, so I'm not sure you should be seeking my approval.

    And, oh, right, there was a fanfic buried somewhere in this debate on language. I may as well address that while I'm ranting.

    @kA: I really like the approach that this fic takes with trying to get inside Karkat's head, but it was bogged down a little by the incredibly flowery prose. I would recommend editing out some of the more unnecessary imagery (such as the line about "spears of despair and swords of woe"), especially since you're writing for the typically blunt, unsubtle Karkat. Also, go back over your punctuation - your sentences tend to run on a little and your commas occasionally seem oddly placed.

    Once again, I'm not an author, editor, or anything else even approaching qualified to give out this advice. I'm just an engineering student who reads a lot. My advice is probably embarrassingly amateurish, so please take it with a grain of salt.
    Oh and this.
    Fanfiction


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  16. #2016

    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Regarding the thesaurus, I'd like to note that it's an incredibly useful resource for songfics. When you want to convey a particular idea, it's really helpful for finding an appropriate word with the right number of syllables.

    Speaking of songfics...

    Trollsterdam


    Original song.

    A/N
    Last edited by ceruleanTresses; 02-23-2011 at 02:46 PM.
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  17. #2017

    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Just going to add my own two cents to the thesaurus topic: they are an absolute godsend when it comes to trolltags and chumhandles, you have no idea.

  18. #2018
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    /ignores debate

    hey guys i wrote more Purple Dave.

    Haunted
    Or, Seraph couldn't think of a cleverer title.

    Last edited by lucidSeraph; 02-23-2011 at 03:52 PM.

  19. #2019

    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by Author View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PingZing View Post
    Author -This story intrigues and frustrates me. Because I don't know what's going on yet, but really want to.
    I don't really know how I feel about your Tavros. I'm having a hard time picturing him speaking forcefully and haltingly at the same time. It just...doesn't...make sense. Minor problem though.
    Frustrating people is fun.

    But yes, me and Tavros have issues. It's mostly because I meant for him to be more assertive, like Vriska wanted him to be. I am not good at writing future Tavros.

    Soooo, setting explanation time!

    Aftermath - What the Fuck Is Going On?


    Okay I think I covered most of the basic points. The rest are plot points.

    Like Tavros' new badassery.
    Something that kind of bugs me is why on earth Feferi would go back on her word to abolish the hemospectrum. I'm having trouble believing she would send the Empire to war without a very good reason. She spent her entire life promoting peace, so I doubt she would change her mind just because her advisors said to. Is there some sort of threat facing the trolls that she has to send them to war? I just have trouble believing she's suddenly evil for no real reason. Maybe it will be explained later. I think this could be a very good fic, or else I wouldn't bother addressing this. The writing is very good!
    Last edited by Cathartes; 02-23-2011 at 03:56 PM.
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  20. #2020
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by ceruleanTresses
    Cant Help Loving That Morail Mine
    Headstuck forever. So happy it exists!!!!!!!!
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  21. #2021
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    My internet was out last night. It makes me do stupid things.

    Cul-De-Stuck Part 1 of ??


    A/N
    Better stretch my legs... Sure has been a while.
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  22. #2022
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by lucidSeraph View Post
    hey guys i wrote more Purple Dave.

    Haunted
    Or, Seraph couldn't think of a cleverer title.

    Yay, more purple!Dave. Postmodernism isn't really my thing but I love your voice for him.

  23. #2023
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by twinTempo View Post
    My internet was out last night. It makes me do stupid things.

    Cul-De-Stuck Part 1 of ??


    A/N
    OH
    MY
    GOD

    ITS LIKE MY CHILDHOOD ALL OVER AGAIN :D

    TROLLS IN SPOILER|TUMBLR HERE|IN WHICH ME AND MY FRIENDS PLAY GAMES

  24. #2024
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Quote Originally Posted by twinTempo View Post
    My internet was out last night. It makes me do stupid things.

    Cul-De-Stuck Part 1 of ??


    A/N
    Oh man fuck yes.

    I'll write more Aftermath later. I found out that Requiem Bloodymare is the best game ever.

    Yeah. This happens to me a lot. But don't worry, I've got like ten chapters planned out for Aftermath. Next will be more exposition. And then maybe I'll start up an invasion or six.

  25. #2025
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    Re: MSPA Fanfiction V: We're Going to Need More Wands

    Cul-de-Stuck.
    HELL
    FUCKING
    YES!

    Come join my nation-building game! Sign-ups are still open!

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