Image Manip Arguments: The Argument Section

[Inconspicularity]

I have noticed in the past 5 pages of Image Manip 9, there has not been a single manip.
That is not right, it is called the "Image Manip" thread for a reason; because it's where manips go.

So, I have went and made this thread to act as a dam for all the pointless arguments that just randomly light on fire every two seconds.

Arguments/Discussions/Debates of the Manip threads, from here on out, go here.
Leave the manips for the manip thread.

Rules (wip):
When referencing something, add a link to the manip and the post(s) in the manip thread.
Skim through the thread before you start some sick fires flame wars.
DON'T POST MANIPS HERE
When continuing a debate from the manip thread, add a hotlinked quote (basically [QUOTE=somebody;1234515], press the "reply with quote" button to get it) to the last and first mention of the debate.

[Inconspicularity]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Resolved Arguments:[/COLOR]

1. Coastermaniac:
Coasterman begging to be OP for the next thread.
Resolution: No. (Why? Constant derailment of practically every thread he visits, and saying everybody is picking on him)

2. Opresident of Thread Ten.
Deciding who shall be the OP of Image Manipulation 10.
The OP of Manip 10 is Bfahome (you may have noticed)

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Unresolved Arguments:

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1. Opresident of Thread Ten.
Deciding who shall be the OP of Image Manipulation 10
Current candidates are:

The One Guy has expressed at least a tangential interest.
Bfahome has been suggested by the previous thread president.
Cyborg771 seems competent enough.
myu2k2 has said they'll do it if everybody of any merit at all somehow drops out.
Krakash thinks it'd be cool.
Ectobiologist'd give it a go.
VeritasUnae says they'd want to, if they could!

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Layout:
{argument nickname}:
{argument summary}
{argument resolution}

(argument/discussion/debate is interchangeable)

[Blaperile]

Okay, first of all, I think this is a great idea to make a new topic for it.

Secondly, I personally think the Best of Thread should be kept and be like it used to be. Manips get in it more frequently.

Or alternatively, not a single manip gets in the best of thread until the end of the thread. In the last 10 pages or something, people can discuss what images were the best and deserve to be there.

[autoglassmasterclass]

i would like to discuss whether or not there should be a rule argument thread

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(finally)

[Quirk]

I vote for keeping the best of thread, but letting the Thread Leader veto images that aren't up to snuff with sufficiently stated reason. Everyone else gets 1 nom per page, 5 noms for BOT. Only one manip per meme is allowed in the BOT.

So basically, as it was before.

[The One Guy]

Honestly, the last few threads have been handled quite well; only the current thread really screwed things up, and that was ultimately caused by MSB's reputation more than it was the actual rules themselves.



Also, I might as well copy this over to here:

Anyways, I just spent the last hour or two gathering statistics; make of them what you will:

Thread 1:
-Led by Betelgeuse
-No best of thread.

Thread 2:
-Led by Esrever
-Standard "4 nom" rule put in place
-26 Winners: 4 were part of a meme

Thread 3:
-Led by Tesseract
-No additional rules
-17 Winners: 1 was part of a meme, 2 were sets of altbloods

Thread 4:
-Led by RLabs
-No additional rules
-41 Winners: 9 were part of a meme, 1 was a meme compilation

Thread 5:
-Led by Chonks
-No nomming more than once within 4 pages
-40 Winners: 4 were part of a meme, 1 was a meme compilation

Thread 6:
-Led by Mayor Sillybiscuits Eismo DJ-PON3
-Reasons are required; Overnomming may force a temporary nom lockout; No memes
-19 Winners: 2 were meme compilations

Thread 7:
-Led by Chonks
-Reasons are required; No nomming more than once within 2 pages
-24 Winners: 5 were part of a meme

Thread 8:
-Led by KawaiiMelon
-Reasons are required; No nomming more than once within 25 posts
-19 Winners: 1 was a set of altbloods

Thread 9:
-Led by Mayor Sillybiscuits Eismo DJ-PON3
-Reasons are required (No repeat reasons); Advanced meme rules
-6 Winners: 2 were meme compilations
-16 "MSB Appreciation" posts...

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A couple notes:
The posts that start a meme are still considered part of that meme."
Altbloods are singled out because they're kind of a meme, and kind of not.

[Cyborg771]

This is clearly the best idea ever! Here are my arguments:

Noms are just getting in the way and making the hosts and voters into enemies. Get rid of em.
People can still comment on images and say why they like them but it's for the sake of the creator, not the BoT.
Speaking of the BoT it should be based on the hosts opinion. If they see a lot of people complimenting a manip they can say "Hey, well people seem to like this one" and put it in too, but there's no hard and fast rules about it.
If a page goes by without a single image being posted THE HOST CAN DELETE ANY POSTS ON THAT PAGE THEY WANT until an image appears.

[DevilEd]

I think the lack of things in the BoT in thread 9 was because people were over reacting about the reasons and contently arguing.

I also agree to drop the BoT.

[Mubbles]

I also agree that the BoT should be removed. Too much drama and not enough manips and all that.
Besides, if you really want a BoT you can just make one yourself! Simple as that.

[VeritasUnae]

There were also a great deal fewer manips (that weren't meme related) in this thread too.

[autoglassmasterclass]

Compared to what? The image manip threads have pretty consistently been focused around memes. Just look at the original.

[Mubbles]

Compared to what? The image manip threads have pretty consistently been focused around memes. Just look at the original.

If you've been looking at the recent threads, you would notice that people are moving away from that sort of thing and being more original.
Which is good! Creativity is always good! On the other hand, memes lose their humor after a few reiterations.

[The Almighty 404]

The OP should have the final word on what is acceptable in the BOT, but should still listen to the reasons we give for that. Sure, that's basically what MSB does, or at least pretend to do. But sometimes, the only reason we can find is "This is awesome and should be in the BOT" and that makes MSB flip the fuck out and do an acrobatic pirouette while putting his fingers in his ears. We need somebody that takes the time to actually LOOK at the pictures, even after declaring those a meme.

[autoglassmasterclass]

Compared to what? The image manip threads have pretty consistently been focused around memes. Just look at the original.

If you've been looking at the recent threads, you would notice that people are moving away from that sort of thing and being more original.
Which is good! Creativity is always good! On the other hand, memes lose their humor after a few reiterations.

Right, what I'm saying is I don't see any movement away from original manips. There seem to have been less on a whole, though. Perhaps it's just me.

[myu2k2]

i actually like the idea of getting rid of the BOT.... The other Fan Art threads go by just fine with out it. I would just imagen if the Fanart threads had such a system it wouldn't reflect the whole demographic of the community. Not everybody is very good, but it doesn't mean that their art is any less then the next person.....

IE: someone like me can't complete against someone like Derp or Lexxy or Caitinstein, i'm just not that good, but when they post a piece of art they fill a page of "OMG, that is so good!" comments and would get all the noms.

However, on the other hand. Limited Noms and Denoms per user.

Everybody only gets 5 votes a thread, they can either be Noms or De-Noms. Once a picture gets 5 noms, it goes into the BoT. BUT, you can also De-Nom a picture, 3 De-Noms will keep it out of the BoT. You can de-nom pictures already in the BOT, and they will be removed once they get 3 denoms. Over Noming would cause you to lose a vote also, so pay attention to how many noms a picture has before noming it yourself.

Other rules (kinda) still apply: Give a reason for the Nom, but don't have to be superdetailed... Just don't go "Nom cause of awesome" or "nom".... "it looks awesome i really like X about it" is ok enough for me (IMHO). Every Vote you give counts even if it doesn't get into the BOT (it could pick up noms later, but who knows?)

De-Noms aren't to be directed at the people Noming the picture, but at the picture itself. A De-Nom cannot be given because the person thinks the Nom's aren't good enough to count. "I think that the picture is good, but not worthy of what i want to see in the BOT." is fine, but try not to hurt anybody's feelings.

Meme images can be Nom'd... but why would you spend all your votes (de)noming memes anyways? Unless you really feel one of the pictures stands out above the rest and could stand-alone out of context, then have at it.

Silly/Wasteful nominations is why the De-nom system would be set up, if a picture isn't up-to-stuff someone could voice that.

[Weeaboo]

What if there was a huge old majhost of nothing but EVERY MANIP EVER?

Thus, BOT would be eliminated.

[DJ-P0N3]

The OP should have the final word on what is acceptable in the BOT, but should still listen to the reasons we give for that. Sure, that's basically what MSB does, or at least pretend to do. But sometimes, the only reason we can find is "This is awesome and should be in the BOT" and that makes MSB flip the fuck out and do an acrobatic pirouette while putting his fingers in his ears. We need somebody that takes the time to actually LOOK at the pictures, even after declaring those a meme.

You say this like I don't actively keep an eye on enjoy various manips in the thread.
I try to run a tight ship because I don't want it to ever revert back to the chaos it was.
Why yes, I do in fact look at pics that are part of a meme and find them relatively funny on occasion, but since they are a meme I don't believe they quite have the right to be in the BoT, but this rule will probably end up being abolished.
I can live with that.

And how are reasons such a hard thing to do?
I could nominate a house for having the best lawn because of its garden gnomes, you can nominate an image manip for its use of colors, clever puns or actions, the skill and degree of the manip, etc. etc.
I will never understand how this is so hard to do.

And I have accepted 'This is awesome' as a reason before, I just don't cite which reasons/nominations got a picture into the BoT.
But yeah, abolishing/removing the BoT?
Best idea.

[autoglassmasterclass]

What if there was a huge old majhost of nothing but EVERY MANIP EVER?

Thus, BOT would be eliminated.

I'd be willing to do this, if anyone actually wants it.

[Limot]

You guys who are all for removing the BoT are noticeably the ones who frequent the Manip threads all the time. What about the people who don't check it every day? What if I want to come home after a long week and check up on the forum and look at some cool manips? I'm not going to want to drudge through 20+ pages that have accumulated over the week just to get my fill. I'm going to want to scroll down to the first or second post and look at what the community believes is the cream of the crop, without wasting my time sifting through conversation and lesser quality manips.

So sure, to those of you who frequent the thread enough to see every manip, removing the BoT is a fantastic idea, but to those of us who don't it just keeps us from wanting to view the thread.

[Potato Panic]

I'm generally a lurker, but my lurking is pretty much centered around this thread and I've been watching it such the beginning of thread 8 soooo, opinions?

I still think the BoT is a good idea, it allows people to feel accomplished after making a great manip and as Limot says lets non-frequenters of the forum check out some of the best manips. The whole reason I got interested in the thread was because of the BoT. At first I wasn't really sure of what the threads were for so I decided instead of trawling through everything I would check out what they considered the "best". And those amazing manips kept me lurking this thread because they were so awesome (but I couldn't contribute at that point because I had no software).

I think the BoT should be less difficult to get into though. Sure "what he said" is an annoying as hell reason, but if what the other person said really captures why it's such an amazing manip, why should you have to try to make up reasons that you don't agree with, that aren't as valid?

If the host finds it too stressful, maybe you could employ a less busy second in command who keeps track of noms and pokes the host everytime they need to edit BoT?
Or you could use a different system?

I'm running out of ideas here but I basically I think the BoT is a good thing.

[BubblegumPatty]

Guys, I have an Idea:

Relaxe the Nom Rules a bit, And Have Multiple Thread Leaders on a single thread; Kinda like Moderators.

That way (in theory), Less Preasure on those who want to Nom something, BoT stays so More Quality work gets recognized, And Work gets Divided with the Thread Leaders, putting them under less responsibility and thus less stress. And then everything would be good, or at least as close to it as a internet forum can get.

I'm not sure how work would be divided, but I guess that's for the leaders to decide on.
As for Meme rule; I can't think of any alternatives that would work for almost everyone.

[Potato Panic]

Guys, I have an Idea:

Relaxe the Nom Rules a bit, And Have Multiple Thread Leaders on a single thread; Kinda like Moderators.

That way (in theory), Less Preasure on those who want to Nom something, BoT stays so More Quality work gets recognized, And Work gets Divided with the Thread Leaders, putting them under less responsibility and thus less stress. And then everything would be good, or at least as close to it as a internet forum can get.

I'm not sure how work would be divided, but I guess that's for the leaders to decide on.
As for Meme rule; I can't think of any alternatives that would work for almost everyone.

Basically this.


Also look at the cool banner I made.

[ashdenej]

I think that some - coasterman and their angst, for example - have not been helping the situation, but I am in support of the BoT and nominations.

I'm not, however, so keen on the meme rules - don't really know why, but they've just been bothering me a little.

[Weeaboo]

What if there was a huge old majhost of nothing but EVERY MANIP EVER?

Thus, BOT would be eliminated.

I'd be willing to do this, if anyone actually wants it.

So long as a few people are behind it, I wouldn't mind it either.

[The One Guy]

Here are four great advantages of having a Best of Thread (there's probably more that I'm not thinking of):

1. Members new to the thread can check out all the best past manips without having to go through the entire threads. If they're unsure whether to participate or watch this thread, this will help them decide too.
2. Someone looking for some past manip is probably going to be looking for some particularly good or memorable manip, and therefore would be able to find it easily through the BOT.
3. It rewards the best manips and provides an incentive to make great manips.

On the other hand, here’ are the four disadvantages I can think of:

1. A poor nomination system can lead to too many nominations (which may clog up the thread and result in too many manips being in the best of thread), or to few (which will result in too few manips being in the best of thread)
2. A bad set of rules could be considered overcomplicated and/or not fair.
3. People will complain about #1 and #2
4. It makes it harder on the thread leader.

The first disadvantage is something that not only is it just "if it's handled wrong" (In fact, threads 6, 7, and 8 were handled quite well), but, along with the second, it is also something that (aside from the clogging up the thread part, which is only for the "too many noms" scenario that's no longer the case) does not detract from anything else besides itself (AKA, removing the BOT would get rid of everything that is affected by the problem, like cutting down a forest will stop people from littering in said forest). The last disadvantage is easily avoided by just saying, "if you don't want to deal with it, then just don't be the thread leader."

So in other words, there are at least four good reasons for keeping the best of thread, and the only reason to remove it is to stop people from complaining, and now with this thread, complaints won't be clogging up the thread anyway.



Also, here's a couple on topic, but unrelated things:

MSB hates memes. None of the other thread leaders even had meme rules. No offence to MSB, but, honestly, if it wasn't for him, memes would not even be an issue.

Is everyone forgetting that the past few threads aside from the current one actually worked well? They weren't perfect, of course, but no system will ever be perfect; why is everyone suggesting all these outrageous solutions when we already had a working solution.