Homestrife 4⅓ - Development Thread 2 - Tech Demo 2 out now!

[ArmsAreLoud]

Skullgirls is 1100 MB and I don't think this game will be as big as Skullgirls.

[frozenMeatpopsicle]

I think it's plausible it could be bigger than that actually. We are working with approximately twice the amount of characters and (probably) stages, AND we're not trying to fit into the relatively tiny RAM constrictions of the 360 or PS3 afterall.

[mynameissua]

so its not big as like 1100 MB but its kindda big as like something 360 or PS3? O_O;; hummm...

[Rikushadow5]

Skullgirls is 1100 MB and I don't think this game will be as big as Skullgirls.

Oh yeah. I almost forgot that Skullgirls released yesterday.

Guess I won't be seeing much of Arms for a week or so.

I really hope it's not bigger than 500 MB. I run on a netbook. It's got great specs, but only 7 GB hard drive. of which 6.5 is taken by OS and important programs.

Dell likes trolling people that can't afford a full computer.

[frozenMeatpopsicle]

@Riku: I can guarantee it'll be at least double that.


Using Skullgirls as a base, I'll try to estimate:

- Skullgirls has 8 characters at launch, each have well over 1000 frames of animation each(~1200 up I believe) and have 3 separate layers(lines, shadows and color). We have at least 17 characters. Each will have an estimated ~1000 frames of animation(don't know yet, won't know 'til John is done) but will only have a single layer. So depending on how they're done, Skullgirls characters should be approximately 2 to 3 times the size of our characters, data wise.

- I have no idea how many stages are in Skullgirls, but I have a feeling we'll have a lot more. Since Homestrife is a SSB based game, it's probably safe to assume some stages will be noticeably bigger than one you'd find in a traditional fighter. So basically, we'll have bigger stages AND more of them.

- Again, I don't know how many tracks Skullgirls has, but our music selection will probably be much bigger.

- Do correct me if I'm wrong, but all the assets for the console version of Skullgirls are made/sized for 720p. We're making art for 1080/1200p, which is 50% bigger than 720p.

All in all I think it's pretty safe to estimate we'll at least match the size of console Skullgirls. Assuming the PC version will run at proper 1080p(not just upscaling), we'll probably hit closer to that size, whatever it is.

[Rikushadow5]

@Riku: I can guarantee it'll be at least double that.


Using Skullgirls as a base, I'll try to estimate:

- Skullgirls has 8 characters at launch, each have well over 1000 frames of animation each(~1200 up I believe) and have 3 separate layers(lines, shadows and color). We have at least 17 characters. Each will have an estimated ~1000 frames of animation(don't know yet, won't know 'til John is done) but will only have a single layer. So depending on how they're done, Skullgirls characters should be approximately 2 to 3 times the size of our characters, data wise.

- I have no idea how many stages are in Skullgirls, but I have a feeling we'll have a lot more. Since Homestrife is a SSB based game, it's probably safe to assume some stages will be noticeably bigger than one you'd find in a traditional fighter. So basically, we'll have bigger stages AND more of them.

- Again, I don't know how many tracks Skullgirls has, but our music selection will probably be much bigger.

- Do correct me if I'm wrong, but all the assets for the console version of Skullgirls are made/sized for 720p. We're making art for 1080/1200p, which is 50% bigger than 720p.

All in all I think it's pretty safe to estimate we'll at least match the size of console Skullgirls. Assuming the PC version will run at proper 1080p(not just upscaling), we'll probably hit closer to that size, whatever it is.

In summation, I am once again going to need an actual computer if I ever want to play anything larger than Audiosurf.

Godammit, Dell. How dare you ask $85 that I don't have for a chip smaller than my palm so that I can have actual storage size.

*shakes fist*

Anyway, yeah. Doing actual work on Jade Moveset tomorrow. Might be compelled to work on other characters. Will be hanging out in the Memo while I work on it, and will probably be putting it on a Google Doc so I can show it off when I'm done because I'm Maid of Charts like that.

[youdont12know]

Ever heard of USB sticks?

[Darlos9D]

Ever heard of USB sticks?

Install it on a USB stick? Yeesh... though I guess if the game doesn't do any loading off of the hard drive during an actual fight, it could be doable.

Not sure I can guarantee that though. We'll see. I mean, it depends entirely on how I handle objects that may or may not exist onscreen at a given moment. I'd like to just load up one "copy" of every asset that could potentially be onscreen even when they aren't onscreen (like projectiles) so I can just make more copies entirely within active memory when they actually need to be created and displayed. That would avoid loading from hard drive, but I don't know if that has any of its own problems.

[Todd Ingram]

Can we collect all the HUD ideas that have been offered so far?

[BRPXQZME]

Video memory management will be important, hmmyess.

[101Leafy]

Install it on a USB stick? Yeesh... though I guess if the game doesn't do any loading off of the hard drive during an actual fight, it could be doable.

Not sure I can guarantee that though. We'll see. I mean, it depends entirely on how I handle objects that may or may not exist onscreen at a given moment. I'd like to just load up one "copy" of every asset that could potentially be onscreen even when they aren't onscreen (like projectiles) so I can just make more copies entirely within active memory when they actually need to be created and displayed. That would avoid loading from hard drive, but I don't know if that has any of its own problems.

I regularly run Maplestory on a USB stick with no problems.

[Rikushadow5]

Install it on a USB stick? Yeesh... though I guess if the game doesn't do any loading off of the hard drive during an actual fight, it could be doable.

Not sure I can guarantee that though. We'll see. I mean, it depends entirely on how I handle objects that may or may not exist onscreen at a given moment. I'd like to just load up one "copy" of every asset that could potentially be onscreen even when they aren't onscreen (like projectiles) so I can just make more copies entirely within active memory when they actually need to be created and displayed. That would avoid loading from hard drive, but I don't know if that has any of its own problems.

You don't need to load from the hard drive. You can set it to fetch directly from the installed directory. I do that sort of thing all the time for my flash-drive-based programs, so I can avoid Filepath errors like "H:/ could not be found".

[Darlos9D]

You don't need to load from the hard drive. You can set it to fetch directly from the installed directory.

... isn't that located somewhere on the hard drive? Or thumb drive. Whatever.

It has to start in storage at some point.

[Rikushadow5]

... isn't that located somewhere on the hard drive? Or thumb drive. Whatever.

It has to start in storage at some point.

Hard Drive =! Thumb Drive
Storage == Storage just fine, however.

[frozenMeatpopsicle]

@Todd: I suppose, yes. There isn't a terribly large amount, and they are scattered through both threads, so I'll at least grab all of them from this thread.

By Aduross:


By Acerbatus:


By Iydak:


By Selig:


By Cyborg771:


By AndIMustMask:


Then of course there is my shitty rough in the screenshot mockups in the OP.

If someone is willing to go through the 100 odd pages of the previous thread and collect any HUD mockups, they are more than welcome to.

[xanibabe]

So for the songs, about how many remixes would be for each of the 17 characters, title screen, etc? I could try to probably do a couple of the songs, depending on what's needed.
(Also sorry if this is a redundant question, I'm a fairly confused child)

[AndIMustMask]

actually, now that xanibabe mentions music: how 'bout that new album? i know Iron knight would be PERFECT for this(as well as pink cat and orange hat, among others), but your opinions on the songs/have they been added to the music chart thing?

[frozenMeatpopsicle]

@xanibabe: No idea at all. We don't really know what we need yet. Basically we'll take as much music as we can get, but at the moment it's far from a priority. You are free to make something though, we're not gonna stop anyone from doing that.

For the demo at least, we will at the very least need a track for John, Rose, Karkat, Vriska, LOWAS, Robot Cage and SBaHJ. Then of course there's the main theme that will have variations for menus and such. So if you do want to make something for us, one of those would be appreciated and your best bet.


@Mask: I haven't been through the entirety of both new albums yet, so I haven't added them to the list yet. I guess I can do that soon, unless someone else adds them.

[frozenMeatpopsicle]

Okay, I've added the last 3 albums to the music list, and marked them according to my opinion.

[mynameissua]

@Todd: I suppose, yes. There isn't a terribly large amount, and they are scattered through both threads, so I'll at least grab all of them from this thread.

By Aduross:


By Acerbatus:


By Iydak:


By Selig:


By Cyborg771:


By AndIMustMask:


Then of course there is my shitty rough in the screenshot mockups in the OP.

If someone is willing to go through the 100 odd pages of the previous thread and collect any HUD mockups, they are more than welcome to.

this is so many great examples! XD the simple design i like so far is Cyborg771. The detail one Aduross design, i dont what u guys choose for but i think these two are the best designs..

[Pyranda]

@ Sua. PLEASE. If you're going to quote a post with large or lots of pictures, PLEASE SPOILER TAG THEM.

------

And to be on topic, I'm still busy with final projects, but I'll be back in full swing by around April 30th. I should be able to get my 2nd round audition in by then.

[SatoshiS]

DJ Sai Tae here! I realize that this isn't TOP priority, but music was finally mentioned again so I decided to hop in as soon as possible >> I noticed on the list that you had a Yes next to Iron Knight for music, and that makes me pretty happy So if you want to use it for the demo, please feel free to! If you need an edit or anything so you can loop it, let me know. If you need a more formal permission thingy or something let me know that too, but consider this officlal permission lol. I'm also working on potential music that I'd like considered for the demo, but they're not done yet. I'll try to get them done as soon as possible!

[frozenMeatpopsicle]

@Pyranda: Yea, no sweat. No rush, get 'em in when you can.


@SatoshiS: Thanks very much, we'll definitely take you up on the offer. Fortunately Karkat will be in the demo, so Iron Knight is relevant to our current milestones.

[Darlos9D]

Still hammering out collision detection over here. I keep implementing an algorithm, realizing its terrible, and replacing it with a better one. I think I'm reaching an end to it though. At least, I know I have rectangle vs rectangle done correctly. It's just rectangle vs triangle that's still a bit wonky.

[Frost]

Not sure I can guarantee that though. We'll see. I mean, it depends entirely on how I handle objects that may or may not exist onscreen at a given moment. I'd like to just load up one "copy" of every asset that could potentially be onscreen even when they aren't onscreen (like projectiles) so I can just make more copies entirely within active memory when they actually need to be created and displayed. That would avoid loading from hard drive, but I don't know if that has any of its own problems.

According to Wikipedia, USB throughput ranges from 1mb/s to 30mb/s. AKA: 2 slow 4 u, especially if you'll be streaming music as well. Bear in mind that file access is likely to be synchronous (unless you're masochistic enough to make the game multithreaded), so any slow disk access will bite directly into your framerates, just like an inefficient algorithm would.

Everything has a fuckton of RAM nowadays; I'd just store all the active/potentially-active resources in that. If you downsample loaded graphics when running in smaller resolutions, this strategy should work pretty well even for the worst netbooks. You could also make things much more efficient by applying run-length encoding to all loaded graphics; it'll mean that you can no longer realistically upload subimages (see: glTexSubImage2D), but given that the game's sprites use huge swathes of identically-colored pixels, this could decrease your sprites' RAM usage by like 80% to 90%.

- Skullgirls has 8 characters at launch, each have well over 1000 frames of animation each(~1200 up I believe) and have 3 separate layers(lines, shadows and color). We have at least 17 characters. Each will have an estimated ~1000 frames of animation(don't know yet, won't know 'til John is done) but will only have a single layer. So depending on how they're done, Skullgirls characters should be approximately 2 to 3 times the size of our characters, data wise.

You're using very flat-shaded characters though, right? That is, few colors per sprite, with large areas that are all the same color. They tend to compress much better than the alternative, and if you can store them at eight bits per pixel (maybe separating out the alpha mask if you want anti-aliasing), that's a reliable 50% or 75% drop in filesize.