IDE/Theory Thread 23: The choicest of theories that money can buy

[tangerine]

You seem to be focusing on one part inside a parenthesis while ignoring the rest of the entire quote.

That might be because that part of a the whole quote, just like every other part of the whole quote, is a detail of the whole point and not a detail excluded from the whole point. The addition of that specific part leaves the question up up in the air as a maybe. I could just as easily state: "You seem to be focusing on the part outside of the parentheses and therefore ignoring the crucial part which could potentially give the idea some possibility." Because, you know, that's pretty much what you're doing.

[The Mather1]

Not quite sure what to think of this:

[Mr_Smitt]

Not quite sure what to think of this:

It's just sauce.

I hope.

[Druplesnubb]

I think that each alpha sprite will be prototyped with one of the trolls in the tubes. I think it makes more sense to bring back existing characters rather than reviving alpha versions of rose and dDave or giving some bunny robot the ability to talk. Here are some predictions:
Jane might get Feferi, since they're both life players and related to the Batterwitch.
Roxy might get Feferi (if those dreambubble trolls are foreshadowing their future sprites), or Nepeta because they're both rogues and like cats. Nepeta will then become prototyped with Gcat and become one of the most powerful characters in the comic. Maybe Equius since he's also a void player and it would be interesting if he became a cat while Nepeta became a horse.
Dirk might get Eridan because they're both princes or Nepeta since they're both heart players, and again because of cat-horse switcheroo. Equius could also be prototyped with Maplehoof and become part-horse of course.
Jake might get Vriska because of "blue girl", because they both like adventures and, again, because of dreambubble shenanigans. Maybe also Tavros because they're both pages. Though personally I'm hoping for Eridan, not only because they're both hope players but also because of all the potential. Imagine Jake going to Eridan and being all "Please help me i have three friends and an A.I. all crushing on me at the same time what do I do?" and Eridan's reaction.

[Tenebrais]

It's just sauce.

I hope.

Grubsauce and ketchup, naturally!

[linkman0596]

The Knight class uses their aspect to their advantage as a weapon, as is stated by Aradia in reference to Dave on this page. It wouldn't make any sense for a Knight of Blood to be able to change the color of blood, because that's not using blood as a weapon, especially when you consider that changing the Condesce's blood color at this point isn't going to do anything at all to stop her. She'll still have all of the powers and abilities that she currently possesses, if not by latent nature then thanks to Lord English granting her those abilities, and she won't be removed from the position of Her Imperial Condescension because Trolls can't be following her if they don't exist.

Recalling alternate experiences through blood ties and using that knowledge to gain the upper hand in situations fits the role, as does mediating between and attempting to unite the blood castes as the Sufferer was trying to do.

psychological warfare, one second being the nobelest of the nobel and the next having "mutant sludge" pump through her veins could cause her to lose it just long enough for them to take her out.

[The Mather1]

Grubsauce and ketchup, naturally!

Wine colored ketchup with a heart-shaped label?

[Stormspirit]

Wine colored ketchup with a heart-shaped label?

Well...uuuuuh...right, I'm getting a weird vibe from that one.

[tangerine]

psychological warfare, one second being the nobelest of the nobel and the next having "mutant sludge" pump through her veins could cause her to lose it just long enough for them to take her out.

This idea is beyond ridiculous. First of all, that one extremely specific, momentary and amazingly conditional situation would be the only situation ever in which Karkat would use these abilities to his advantage like a Knight. It would be completely useless for absolutely anything else in his entire existence. This doesn't really make for a good Knight. This doesn't make for a good anything. He could do party tricks. Karkat would be the clown/magician at kids parties who changed the color of the birthday boy's blood.

Imagine him in an actual fight with absolutely anyone else under absolutely any other circumstance than the one that you mentioned, which relies on an even more specific condition to even be feasible. Imagine his power being completely pointless. Imagine the only person who can benefit from this being Gamzee so that he can have more colors to paint with.

[Tenebrais]

Wine colored ketchup with a heart-shaped label?

It's not heart-shaped; that's just the curve of the bottle.

[The Mather1]

It's not heart-shaped; that's just the curve of the bottle.

Then why does the label on the other bottle have a shading where this has none? The other is curved, the purple has an indentation in the label.
If it was just curved, it would look:

[Karp]

They may have just run out of buckets and had to start using bottles instead.

[ponce]

Then why does the label on the other bottle have a shading where this has none? The other is curved, the purple has an indentation in the label.
If it was just curved, it would look:

I am pretty sure that is from Chrono Trigger like half of the other objects in the room. It is interesting that most of them are from Zeal, the Empire of Dreams, ruled by a mad empress empowered by a time traveling abomination that looks like a puppet. Does that sound like anyone we know?

[Nimz]

The story was being told by Doc Scratch at the time, and I doubt that he's one to omit any details given his character, especially one which would go against what is explicitly stated. That would mean that he lied, and, as we know, Doc Scratch doesn't lie. Given that detail, I think that it is a stretch to believe otherwise unless this was just a badly done hint on Hussie's part, which I don't discount since Hussie is definitely not a perfect storyteller.

Perhaps you should recall a few things about Doc Scratch. Supposedly he never lies. I will not argue that he does lie, as that doesn't seem to fit his character very well. He does not consider tactical omissions to be lies, though. He led Rose to believe that she would be destroying the Green Sun, when she in fact created it. He does omit details to manipulate people into thinking falsehoods. Mindfang dwelt on the sea would be enough for him to call her a seadweller, especially if it suited his purposes to make that ambiguous.

Doc Scratch saying the Dolorosa was owned by sea dwellers for the rest of her life actually makes it more likely her last days were in Mindfang's possession than if Hussie had said it directly. We do not have the final word, so I will leave the preconceived notions alone aside from this mention that it could easily go either direction based on what we know.

[Snowmanne]

Taken from the update thread regarding the most recent Karkatception as of this writing.

I think Karkat is incapable of having a relationship, like a human.

To me this explains a great deal of his personality and portrayal within the comic. His ever present anger could be a coping mechanism in order to appear as angry and violent as he perceives the other trolls around him to be. We know that he does not handle his insecurities well such as by hiding his blood color in the least subtle way possible. As such he could be outwardly compensating in order to meet his budding internal desires that he's just starting to become aware of from going through puberty. How many times have we heard him say, "DO NOT QUESTION THE SINCERITY OF MY HATE"? In this way his situation is comparable to being homosexual, albeit the only homosexual in a multi galactic empire. He espouses a romantic preferences that is not up to his culture's norms and consciously enough I think this terrifies him.

His relationship sleuthing acumen could be owed to the fact that he can look at traditional troll feelings 'objectively' without being subject to them. It's much easier to understand a calignous relationship if you're only desperately forcing yourself to have one.

Furthermore, didn't his ancestor try to 'transcend the quadrants'? He wasn't in a conventional troll relationship either. Karkat's 'hot an cold' attraction to Terezi would just be understood as a grumpy, but caring lover in a situation but a Troll would misunderstand that. The fact that Karkat is even 'able' to make that mistake is telling. Also didn't Vriska say that he should have been a human? Hmmm...

This IDE work well with a larger scale IDE of mine:

Karkat has the emotions and morality of a human.

NO NO! Don't run away this isn't an attempt to ship j/k or something come back!

Take notice how Karkat is probably the only troll to not do all kinds of morally sketchy stuff. (Kanaya didn't either, but she never questioned anyone else unless it was directed to her or her friends).

Tavros and Feferi are considered the "nice trolls", but take a look at what they do.
Tavros is the pacifist player because he communes with the monsters, but it arguable that brainwashing masses to do your bidding is worse than killing them. Hell, he even did it while playing FIDUSPAWN, that's outright animal abuse.
Feferi orphaned many trolls of their lusii to feed hers. While this was necessary to keep everyone alive, a human would at least feel some guilt, or try and help the orphans. Feferi, on the other hand, is shown grinning while she pulls dead parents into the sea.

Karkat was actually pretty moral all the time. He tried to help out Tavros and Eridan, even though in troll standards they failed at romance and deserve no (platonic) pity. He kept trying to unite a bunch of mentally unstable hormone driven kids under his leadership, which would be hard even if they were from an alien race that is based on self gain and backstabbing.

That's the reason many people find it easy to project themselves on Karkat. He is grumpy and mean, and at times worse then the normal trolls, but on the greater scale of things he acts as like a human.

From that we can infer that Blood has to do with morality and emotions.

[ponce]

This IDE work well with a larger scale IDE of mine:

Karkat has the emotions and morality of a human.

NO NO! Don't run away this isn't an attempt to ship j/k or something come back!

Take notice how Karkat is probably the only troll to not do all kinds of morally sketchy stuff. (Kanaya didn't either, but she never questioned anyone else unless it was directed to her or her friends).

Tavros and Feferi are considered the "nice trolls", but take a look at what they do.
Tavros is the pacifist player because he communes with the monsters, but it arguable that brainwashing masses to do your bidding is worse than killing them. Hell, he even did it while playing FIDUSPAWN, that's outright animal abuse.
Feferi orphaned many trolls of their lusii to feed hers. While this was necessary to keep everyone alive, a human would at least feel some guilt, or try and help the orphans. Feferi, on the other hand, is shown grinning while she pulls dead parents into the sea.

Karkat was actually pretty moral all the time. He tried to help out Tavros and Eridan, even though in troll standards they failed at romance and deserve no (platonic) pity. He kept trying to unite a bunch of mentally unstable hormone driven kids under his leadership, which would be hard even if they were from an alien race that is based on self gain and backstabbing.

That's the reason many people find it easy to project themselves on Karkat. He is grumpy and mean, and at times worse then the normal trolls, but on the greater scale of things he acts as like a human.

From that we can infer that Blood has to do with morality and emotions.

I don't think we're taking into account how the quadrants were enforced from the top down by the Empire and, to a lesser degree, Scratch. Without the threat of death for lacking a kissymess, it's no surprise to see the institution break down.

[Snowmanne]

I don't think we're taking into account how the quadrants were enforced from the top down by the Empire and, to a lesser degree, Scratch. Without the threat of death for lacking a kissymess, it's no surprise to see the institution break down.

Moirails aren't required, yet Karkat tried to comfort Eridan and Tavros in a way that for trolls only moirails should act but for humans is how any friend should act.

[Sparrowsmith]

I never really intended on joining the forums, but to hell with it. I have an IDE that I'd like to share with fellow Homestucks (actually I'm not sure if I am a homestuck, is there some kind of procedure for procuring the title?) anyway, it's less of an IDE more of an observation, but I figured I'd put it out there just in case it hadn't occurred to anyone else.

FCG: YOU'VE BEEN SENDING HER AN ENDLESS STREAM OF MIXED SIGNALS FOR AS LONG AS YOU'VE KNOWN HER.

Mixed signals are a big problem in romance... Unless you're the seer of mind and can (so far as we know) flawlessly predict the outcomes of people's decisions, including your own. Terezi knew Jack would follow the trail back to the meteor in the timeline that never was. She knew Vriska would fail to stop him from doing so. She knew Vriska would alter the result of the coin flip. She knew Dave would use his powers if she told him how.
Of course, she did not seem to predict her own reaction to doomed-Dave's death, which is a potential hole in my little bubble of thought here.

Anyway. Whatever Terezi is doing with Dave, there is little room for error. If she wants Karkat, then what she's doing is being done specifically to make Karkat jealous, or to have this conversation, or something. If she wants Dave, then what she's doing is being done specifically to make Dave like her and let Karkat down as easy as possible (assumption).
Since Karkat is not being let down easy, and the Seer of Mind would surely predict this and not want her friend and once red-rom to be angrier than usual, it would seem she wants Karkat to feel this way. The Seer of Mind making a bad decision when she can predict reactions is like the Thief of Light not having all of the luck. It shouldn't happen.

Besides, Terezi was always good at manipulating people, and now she has bonus powers to aid her. Unless she wants Karkat to be upset (seems unlikely to me) then what she is doing will make Karkat open up in some way and improve their relationship.
Alternatively, she knows that they would both be happier with other people (seer of mind) and that is why she's doing this. I don't think it's as simple as Karkat is making it out to be though. Of course, I'm usually wrong with my predictions in Homestuck. It flies in the face of logic. It does an acrobatic pirouette off of all the logic and lands on some plush ass of retardedness. There, three HS jokes in a single sentence, now you have to show my IDE mercy, it's what a friend would do.

[linkman0596]

This idea is beyond ridiculous. First of all, that one extremely specific, momentary and amazingly conditional situation would be the only situation ever in which Karkat would use these abilities to his advantage like a Knight. It would be completely useless for absolutely anything else in his entire existence. This doesn't really make for a good Knight. This doesn't make for a good anything. He could do party tricks. Karkat would be the clown/magician at kids parties who changed the color of the birthday boy's blood.

Imagine him in an actual fight with absolutely anyone else under absolutely any other circumstance than the one that you mentioned, which relies on an even more specific condition to even be feasible. Imagine his power being completely pointless. Imagine the only person who can benefit from this being Gamzee so that he can have more colors to paint with.

and this situation just might be coming up as the last major boss fight OoO. in addition, think of how usefull this power would've been had he been the sufferer, he could've changed the blood of others to throw out the hemospectrum caste system. hell, if he had changed some blood color while on the meteor, a couple extra trolls probably would've survived

[ponce]

Moirails aren't required, yet Karkat tried to comfort Eridan and Tavros in a way that for trolls only moirails should act but for humans is how any friend should act.

Exactly, which further evidences that the enforced division of emotions under the quadrant system is a construct rather than a natural part of troll xenoneuropsychology.

[dialecticBlight]

Did anyone notice this in the latest few updates? Sorry if anyone did, can't be bothered to check.

When Karkat referred to Terezi's relationship with "you-know-who," he said that he couldn't be better, as he had horns so nubby they didn't exist, candy-red blood just like him, and also was a better artist. While the obvious contender for this would be Dave, WV is also standing right there in the picture, everyone's messing around with cans, and he has both no horns and candy-red blood.

Call me crazy, but these are literally the only two people that Karkat could be referring to, they're standing right there in the picture as he says it, and it has to be deliberate on Hussie's part that the ambiguity is present.

So does this mean that Terezi x WV is canon? Or will I just be Jossed by Hussie in 2-3 pages?

[MegaRock35]

Did anyone notice this in the latest few updates? Sorry if anyone did, can't be bothered to check.

When Karkat referred to Terezi's relationship with "you-know-who," he said that he couldn't be better, as he had horns so nubby they didn't exist, candy-red blood just like him, and also was a better artist. While the obvious contender for this would be Dave, WV is also standing right there in the picture, everyone's messing around with cans, and he has both no horns and candy-red blood.

Call me crazy, but these are literally the only two people that Karkat could be referring to, they're standing right there in the picture as he says it, and it has to be deliberate on Hussie's part that the ambiguity is present.

So does this mean that Terezi x WV is canon? Or will I just be Jossed by Hussie in 2-3 pages?

Ahahaha, this is not the first time I've heard it, but this is still a beautiful and oddly plausible theory.

IDE/Theory: After the three years are up, WV will glomp John and they will have the most adorable reunion ever. The last time WV saw John, he was impaled by Jack on a slab of rock, after all.

[The_Unoriginal]

Colonel Sassacre knew that Betty Crocker was not human.

[deathsbuddy]

Wine colored ketchup with a heart-shaped label?

worcestershire sauce

[Crispiness]

Critical analysis of art assets taken from videogames (read: sprite rips). Now I've seen it all.