"How do I words?" OR "The writing advice, critique, and discussion thread!"

**draconicAlgorithm** · 03-07-2012, 09:24 PM

-randomly pops in the conversation- The point of annotations is to make you think more deeply about the text and what is going on in it. I don't use them much either, and to be honest, most of my annotations are either snarky comments about the content or hypotheses of things to come. Or recognition of allusions.

If nothing else, just summarize ideas. I'm not entirely sure what sort of text you're reading, but that's usually a good way to go.

**kholhaus** · 03-07-2012, 09:33 PM

Nambotooooo~!

You're killing me with your absence of a full critique session!

Good criticism is like CRACK for me.

**Namboto** · 03-08-2012, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by kholhaus

Nambotooooo~!

You're killing me with your absence of a full critique session!

Good criticism is like CRACK for me.

Well then prepare your nostrils cause I'm dishin' up the WHITE MILES

Here it is, comments in red

Overall, it was good, but you had some problems with ambiguity and redundancy. Your grammar was decent, but there were a few errors. Also, your choice of words could be a little stale or awkward sometimes.

**kholhaus** · 03-08-2012, 01:57 AM

YES.

Thank you.

I was pretty flamboyant and tried to put a lot of bullshit into the writing when I had wrote it. (Not intentionally of course.)

Too many people were confused or outright befuddled by my word choice, and I went a little overboard with the metaphors. So much so, that I forgot a lot of basic rules of writing.

Not to mention, we weren't allowed to review our own work before handing in this draft, so... yeah. Not my best.

I'm so very glad someone saw the flaws that I didn't see in my story. I can NOT thank you enough Namboto.

**Ocil** · 03-08-2012, 02:52 AM

Haha, I'm sure this thing is riddled with problems, but getting it critiqued would be cool, I think.

**Wessolf27** · 03-08-2012, 03:05 AM

Ugh, got a problem with dialogue tags, in that whenever I attempt to place some sort of action, thought or image, it seems like it's difficult to put them together without using phrases like "[x] said, as s/he" or having to use gerunds/infinitives in order to phrase what's going on, even when the tense calls for something else. Whenever I try to write the action in front of the dialogue, it ends up looking rather awkward, especially since I still have that gerund/infinitive problem.

And in general, it's very hard for me to unify my dialogue with my action, description or anything else for that matter, it always feels like I'm expecting that my characters haven't exactly finished talking yet and when they probably have, I've got no clue as to how to continue it. And in the end when I try to reread the whole piece, it feels too fixed and mechanic. I've been writing for quite a while now, but I can't seem to shake that problem off.

So because of that, I tend to loathe writing dialogue, can anyone please help here? I can post an example but I don't have it at the moment.

**Quirk** · 03-08-2012, 09:29 AM

@ Wessolf - Occasionally I have no tags, just action. Doesn't work all the time, but it does work.

For example:

"Really?" Quirk looked up from oiling his chainsword. "Are you even trying? Because, to be quite frank, that's a horrendously inefficient method of killing Vriskas."

**kholhaus** · 03-08-2012, 12:01 PM

Just try to be clear on who is doing the talking.

If it's multiple people talking in a non-round robin style, you'd pretty much want to tag them, and even when it IS round-robin.

But two people can usually be determined from one another.

**Quirk** · 03-08-2012, 10:01 PM

Okay, I've got a bit of a problem/issue/minor annoyance. I'm writing a sci-fi short story. The main character is an alien, from a species that happens to be monogendered and isn't really male or female.

Pronouns. Fucking English and its lack of appropriate pronouns for these things. I'm using E/em/eir for now, but it doesn't stop it from looking awkward as all get out. Any suggestions for alternatives?

**childishGambino** · 03-08-2012, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Quirk

Okay, I've got a bit of a problem/issue/minor annoyance. I'm writing a sci-fi short story. The main character is an alien, from a species that happens to be monogendered and isn't really male or female.

Pronouns. Fucking English and its lack of appropriate pronouns for these things. I'm using E/em/eir for now, but it doesn't stop it from looking awkward as all get out. Any suggestions for alternatives?

Obviously the only option is THON.

No matter what constructed gender-neutral pronouns you decide to use, they're probably gonna look pretty weird. But in this particular case, people might be a little more willing to accept it, because hey, aliens. It's like how can justify people constantly throwing around the word "cephalothorax" if half the characters in your story are giant sentient crayfish.

**kholhaus** · 03-09-2012, 01:26 AM

You could try using words from other languages, that seems to work, but English has no currently existing Gender neutral pronouns, unless you make stuff up.

You could also use gender-pronouns based on personality and mannerisms alone, rather than gender, but that could get a bit touchy. However, hormones do affect personality so...

Eh, just to be safe, make a new word up.

**kraine** · 03-09-2012, 01:33 AM

So I wrote this thing a while ago for the Let's Ask thread. I very rarely write, and you can probably see why? Any critique or comments are welcome, I like feedback of any kind.

IN THE BOWELS of an unknown world, there lived a tribe of demons so violent, cunning, and powerful that brahman itself prevented their
discovery. For millennia they stalked the long nights in silence, warring with others of their kind, hunting, and rioting, and in their stead a new world
was left behind. For they were Creators; and all that they tried to destroy was replicated eightfold. Amongst all the clans there existed one Creator
larger and more powerful than any other, and with an anger that far surpassed that of any being in existence. Her name was Cruja, and she would
be the one that began it all.

Cruja's rage was not easily provoked. In fact, she was slow and slept often; while the other Creators were cajoling and bickering and upheaving
mountains, she would sing silently to herself. One night while Cruja sang, a fellow Creator tried his luck with her. Mating was common for the demons,
albeit violent. Cruja, however, was not to be had - never had any lesser Creator the audacity to approach her. This night was not an ordinary night.
In the way of their species, the Creator attacked, slashing a hole in Cruja's belly. Her song turning to a roar, the Great Creator keeled over. The void
in her belly healed eightfold - it turned into a child. And her rage was woken.

Rising from her torpor, Cruja's limbs unfurled. The others, knowing instinctively what was to come, burrowed themselves into the dirt - their tunneling
sent crags bursting from the ground around Cruja. The Great Creator's eyes burned with fury. Releasing a cry, she tore the world in two.

From the void of her destruction rose a new land. Only one demon survived the Great Creation, and that was Cruja's son. He waited - millions of years
he waited until he was able to take his true form dictated by the fauna of the Earth that his mother created. And in what the dominant species of Earth
refers to as the Year 2011, he took his true form.

And that is the story of Blueberry the Tarantula.

**kholhaus** · 03-09-2012, 01:43 AM

It's got a real folklore-y feel to it!

The concept is great, however the repetition sort of drops the quality. Explicit wording and repetition only really works in Essays, and even then it's not a great strategy.

I would suggest searching for synonyms of words, and replacing certain words with other meanings.
For example;
One calm night while Cruja sang to herself, a fellow kinsman tried his luck with her.

Just minor rewording can have a hugely beneficial effect on one's stories/writing.

**Wessolf27** · 03-09-2012, 02:37 AM

@Quirk, kholhaus: Thanks for the tip, I have tried the "straight-to-action" for dialogue and I agree that it doesn't always work the way I'd like. I'll put down something here, the dream sequence has been bugging me since it doesn't seem to flow smoothly.

Scratch that. The whole dream sequence bothers me. But I can't seem to find a good way to fix it.

Spoilered for long blocks of text

It was the fifth consecutive time that Zeph found himself waking up in cold sweat. It was that nightmare again, he thought. Though in all honesty, it was less of a nightmare and more of a memory he’d rather forget. It was quite old, something he had ever since he was a kid.
He would find himself young again, playing with old friends by the old playground across the street with the creaking seesaws and the broken swings. He would pass by the lonely girl sitting by the side, wearing that dress with prints of yellow flowers—and Zeph would yell at himself not to speak to her, but he wouldn’t listen. He would ask her if she would play with him, and she would always say yes. Then they would all play hide-and-seek and always he would be the “It”. He would sneak in a glance seeing the girl into the hole in the fence that led to the junkyard –as he always feared—, and he would run through that old fence and every time he would find her, a limp body bleeding away from the large gash on her side that had been torn open by a rabid dog, its piercing golden eyes fixed on him as he could hear his heart pounding fast, and moments later he would wake up.
The memories after the nightmare would return to him. He ran. His vision blurred by tears, and his mind racing in terror. The junkyard warden found the girl soon after, barely alive, she died on the way to the hospital.
He would run to his mother, and she would hold him tightly and shoo away the terror in his heart, but he couldn’t stop crying and he would blame himself for everything that happened. But she continued to shush him and scratch his hair. Told him that he never did anything wrong... never did anything wrong.
That was ten years ago, and ever since, the memory of the girl in the dress still haunts him, and he determined that he would be afraid of dogs for the rest of his life.
Zeph sighed and rubbed his eyes, his room was fairly bright with a chart of the stars posted on one of the walls, there was a corkboard on the wall filled with several notes, the biggest one written in glaringly bold marking lines.

“Watch the counter on Aurumsday, Honey.
–Love, Mom
P.S. Don’t go shirking your work today, you promised, remember?”

He took a glance at the calendar, and sure enough, it said Aurumsday right on the clock. “Right…” he mumbled. He let out one last yawn and stretched his arms before getting out of the bed. He picked up his pants when Connor had let himself in.
“Hey Zeph, nice boxers you have there.”
“Get out!” Zeph yelled, almost throwing his pants at him. “How did you open the door anyway?”
Connor smiled and dangled the keys, “Mom gave me these when you didn’t wake up for work.”
Zeph sneered, “Then tell her I’m coming. Just let me get dressed first!”
“Oh yeah, I forgot.”
“What?”
Connor whipped out his phone and took a snapshot, “Say Cheese!”
“Hey!” Zeph dashed for his brother’s phone but Connor had shut the door on him, causing him to crash face first, he fell on the floor, rubbing his forehead. He decided to lay there for a few seconds to ponder about how he would become the next laughingstock of the internet.
He got up, swearing to the Creator that he’s going to tear his brother apart when he finds him. He then puts on his denim pants and a green shirt and goes down stairs, from the third floor to the kitchen at ground level.

EDIT: Bluh, I forgot to say that I added in the rest because I probably want a more general analysis of my writing ability as well. Though... I guess that's already expected?

**Kestral** · 03-09-2012, 07:39 PM

@Wessolf
Sometimes when a particular sequence is giving me troubles I try reordering the whole thing. This may be useful here because it is a rough transition from Zeph's dream to his waking life. Maybe it would flow better if you first described the dream, have him wake up in a cold sweat, have him think about the memory the dream came from, then have him reflect on how this have happened five nights in a row. This might help, but keep in mind this is my opinion and I am not a very experienced writer.
As for general analysis, I'm afraid I don't have much to say. To me, beginning something with the line: "It was the five consecutive..." reads as boring. I really like the rest of the piece and I don't want to be turned away by the first line. Do you have more of this story written and posted somewhere? If it's on this thread sorry for not just looking for it. I tend to just go to the most resent post.
(Should I spoiler something like this?)

**Wessolf27** · 03-09-2012, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Kestral

@Wessolf
Sometimes when a particular sequence is giving me troubles I try reordering the whole thing. This may be useful here because it is a rough transition from Zeph's dream to his waking life. Maybe it would flow better if you first described the dream, have him wake up in a cold sweat, have him think about the memory the dream came from, then have him reflect on how this have happened five nights in a row. This might help, but keep in mind this is my opinion and I am not a very experienced writer.
As for general analysis, I'm afraid I don't have much to say. To me, beginning something with the line: "It was the five consecutive..." reads as boring. I really like the rest of the piece and I don't want to be turned away by the first line. Do you have more of this story written and posted somewhere? If it's on this thread sorry for not just looking for it. I tend to just go to the most resent post.
(Should I spoiler something like this?)

Ah that's a good tip, never really thought about rearranging the story before, you've got a point there. As for first lines, I also have trouble with those XD; they're actually the most difficult for me to write about since I don't exactly have a good idea of how it's supposed to start.

As for the rest of the story, I'm still working on it, it's not yet complete and that excerpt is the only thing I've posted as of the moment. Thanks for the crit though!

It's very appreciated.

**The Dr.** · 03-10-2012, 01:29 AM

Aha! I knew I'd find a use for this thread quickly enough!
I've run into an issue as of late. I don't necessarily have writer's block, per se, but as of late I keep finding that whenever I try to describe something, I start to venture into dangerously purple territory. Does anybody have some pointers to help someone like me convey an emotion or a detail well enough without sounding too meretricious (or worse yet, like I just straight-up swallowed a thesaurus with a side of mashed potatoes)?
There's a very fine line between "a beautiful sunset" and "a brilliant, flowing aura of orange-pink struggling to stay in line with the afternoon sun" and it's surprisingly difficult not stepping onto that latter side when you can't think of a better way to describe something.

**Wessolf27** · 03-10-2012, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by The Dr.

Aha! I knew I'd find a use for this thread quickly enough!
I've run into an issue as of late. I don't necessarily have writer's block, per se, but as of late I keep finding that whenever I try to describe something, I start to venture into dangerously purple territory. Does anybody have some pointers to help someone like me convey an emotion or a detail well enough without sounding too meretricious (or worse yet, like I just straight-up swallowed a thesaurus with a side of mashed potatoes)?
There's a very fine line between "a beautiful sunset" and "a brilliant, flowing aura of orange-pink struggling to stay in line with the afternoon sun" and it's surprisingly difficult not stepping onto that latter side when you can't think of a better way to describe something.

Well, there's something to keep in mind, and that's probably the character's thoughts on the matter. Characters have different interests, so that means that they focus on a lot of different things. Take note and ask yourself how interested would the character be when you introduce something to his or her viewpoint. If he's not that interested maybe he would simply acknowledge it, and in some cases they might not even mention it at all! At the same time, when a character is very interested in a certain thing or topic, he or she would definitely be ready to explain everything about it in excruciating detail.

Always take note of a character's state of mind, so it's not just interests, but the level of priority he or she gives at that thing at the moment, so if say... your character is in a very fast-paced scene, he or she wouldn't just suddenly stop and smell the flowers (indicated by long... flowery prose) or for that manner, the level of detail on that guy's clothes or how he swings his weapon around. Instead, try quick and short sentences that give a blow-by-blow description of what's going on.

For background descriptions, it's all right to go with long and slow sentences, with a number of pauses through commas, sorta like this. It would reflect how the character has the time to just relax and look around, or admire, especially if it's his first time in. If it's not, well, she could say that he hadn't been able to take the time to appreciate it because she was in such a hurry.

So I guess there's two things to take notice when trying to gauge on how long or descriptive your sentences should be:
1.) The character's level of interest
2.) The character's level of priority and urgency.

Oh yeah, and take note that it's okay to leave certain things out. The reader should be invited to speculate on what's going on. So by leaving some things out, you're letting the reader think about what's going on or what's going to happen. Show the parts you think is important, and be ready to trim the unnecessary details when you start editing.

**tangerine** · 03-10-2012, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by Quirk

Okay, I've got a bit of a problem/issue/minor annoyance. I'm writing a sci-fi short story. The main character is an alien, from a species that happens to be monogendered and isn't really male or female.

Pronouns. Fucking English and its lack of appropriate pronouns for these things. I'm using E/em/eir for now, but it doesn't stop it from looking awkward as all get out. Any suggestions for alternatives?

English has two singular gender-neutral pronouns: one and it. Both are appropriate to use, but they also ring awkwardly, which is why people tend to disregard them. It still doesn't mean that the English language has no gender-neutral pronouns, though, which is what you and others seem to be stating.

The pronoun one would probably be the easiest to make use of for a general context while the pronoun it would be good for a specific context. One can be followed-up with another in order to differentiate between characters. One sort of example of the usage of one for in a general way would be: One would eat apples while another would eat oranges. Another sort of example for specific usage would be: One could be truthful, but then one would be revealing too much information. Using it can be easier for specific contexts than using one, such as here: Xuglborg (or something) wasn't very happy. It hated the implication that was being made.

Alternatively, it's perfectly acceptable to not use single words to refer to characters. You could try being more general by going with that/this [something]. For example, you could write: That particular [species name or general noun] wasn't very bright.

I hope this helps.

**Namboto** · 03-10-2012, 07:29 AM

So what I'm doing with my current project (tentatively called Shadow) is splitting the perspective between the six main characters. Now with that comes the important decision of who tells what and how much "screen time" they all get.

While this will be tough to manage, it's not really my main concern right now (I'm trying to go one thing at a time with this one). Instead I have the related problem of how to structure the opening chapter. Should I have the perspective switch six times and introduce them all in the first chapter? Or should I do something else (and if so, what do you think would be a good idea?)

As an example, here is the updated version, which includes an introduction to Ray.

**Ace of Dark-Hearts** · 03-10-2012, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Namboto

So what I'm doing with my current project (tentatively called Shadow) is splitting the perspective between the six main characters. Now with that comes the important decision of who tells what and how much "screen time" they all get.

While this will be tough to manage, it's not really my main concern right now (I'm trying to go one thing at a time with this one). Instead I have the related problem of how to structure the opening chapter. Should I have the perspective switch six times and introduce them all in the first chapter? Or should I do something else (and if so, what do you think would be a good idea?)

As an example, here is the updated version, which includes an introduction to Ray.

My advice would be to not worry about it at all. If you try to cram all of the characters in the first chapter, it might seem rushed. Instead maybe introduce the most important characters or ones who have/will have the closest relationship(s) with the main-main character. Or the first character, Zane. Whatever is applicable to your story.

**Nameless1** · 03-10-2012, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Namboto

So what I'm doing with my current project (tentatively called Shadow) is splitting the perspective between the six main characters. Now with that comes the important decision of who tells what and how much "screen time" they all get.

While this will be tough to manage, it's not really my main concern right now (I'm trying to go one thing at a time with this one). Instead I have the related problem of how to structure the opening chapter. Should I have the perspective switch six times and introduce them all in the first chapter? Or should I do something else (and if so, what do you think would be a good idea?)

As an example, here is the updated version, which includes an introduction to Ray.

I have a friend who is telling a similar story, but she's split it up into say, 6 shorts, all from a different characters perspective, you could try that?

**The Dr.** · 03-10-2012, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Namboto

So what I'm doing with my current project (tentatively called Shadow) is splitting the perspective between the six main characters. Now with that comes the important decision of who tells what and how much "screen time" they all get.

While this will be tough to manage, it's not really my main concern right now (I'm trying to go one thing at a time with this one). Instead I have the related problem of how to structure the opening chapter. Should I have the perspective switch six times and introduce them all in the first chapter? Or should I do something else (and if so, what do you think would be a good idea?)

As an example, here is the updated version, which includes an introduction to Ray.

Take a word from somebody who's writing a story comprised of (and this doesn't even include side ones) 14 main characters: Introduce the characters at a pace that makes sense. Don't just throw the basic exposition of all of the characters in the very first chapter only to reintroduce one of them six chapters later. Of course, on the other hand, don't wait until that character is joined up with the rest of the party to introduce them either. Bring a new character into the story when their part of the story starts. Explain how they got where they did, how they met up with the rest of the characters, etc. I've devoted multiple chapters to explaining how certain characters meet up.
Don't be afraid to have a plot that doesn't necessarily connect at first. You can leave a few ends hanging and then tie them to oneanother as the story goes on, slowly cluing the reader in to how the big puzzle fits together. In the story/game/book/thing I'm writing, there are four distinct "books" each telling the stories of seperate characters. At the very start, the only relation they have is that they belong in the same universe, but as the story begins to progress, the different characters meet up and before long you have characters from one book playing a crucial role in another one.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that as long as everybody has their story told at a time that makes enough sense in context, and that all of the stories end up in a position that makes sense in context, you have a story that works. In context.

**Dmatix** · 03-11-2012, 07:21 PM

Ah, I was wondering when a thread like this will appear again. Good. If anyone would like to give me some criticism for my fic (link in my sig) it would be appreciated. Quirk already gave me some very useful advice on it.

**Namboto** · 03-14-2012, 06:26 PM

I'll do a read through later Dmatix, but for now I just wanted to introduce something cool that I found. It's a program called Ommwriter that tries to provide a distraction-less writing environment. It's an absolute joy to write in, actually. The fonts (there are four in the free version) are all fairly simple and it removes all the menus and such when you don't need them there. Word, I've found, is much too stifling an environment for me. It's not interesting to look at or write in. Usually I use notepad or some other text editor, but even then it's fairly sterile.

There's two versions: a free one and a for-money one with more features. I've got the free one right now, and am enjoying it quite a bit.

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