IDE/Theory Thread 24: The Pink Moon's moon is Io

[Jolts]

I'm thinking that if the dreamself dies on the quest crypt, then they won't actually go god tier until their real self dies as well.

[Scarlet Smiles]

Also, I'm pretty sure that the Condesce can match Jack in power at this point.

Probably. FG level characters are unmatched in raw destructive power, but there's still combat skill and creativity to be taken into account. I don't think that Condy can blow up universes (unless they were really small inproportion to her), but that heave of super powers she has now gives her a lot of creative potential. Strong and deadly are two different kinds of power, I feel.

[Blaperile]

I'm not sure, I think that Jack might be a little bit stronger than Condesce. She just has a lot of Troll powers, while he has First Guardian powers.

IDE/Theory: Once Homestuck is almost over, in Act 7, the Sprites will think they're not needed anymore by the Kids and they will disappear into nothing, maybe leaving the items behind that were used to prototype them. The same happened to the Sprites of the Trolls once they had beaten their Black King.

I discussed this with plainWonder, and he had an idea that Becsprite could maybe get out of Jade at that moment. And then Jade can say goodbye to her good dog, best friend.

[Hytheter]

The same happened to the Sprites of the Trolls once they had beaten their Black King.

Source?

edit: oh

[Blaperile]

There's no source, I'm just theorizing that the same happened to the Trolls' sprites.

EDIT:

Bonus IDE/Theory: Homestuck is going to end on page 9001.

Either of Homestuck itself, or just of the site. :P

EDIT 2:

Another theory.

IDE/Theory: Like we know, all consorts are dead when the Nobles will get into the session. And at the time the consorts were still living, the lanterns of Jake and Jane went out (and the latter back on). But this is a bit weird, because the lanterns would predict what's happening in the future then, right?

But here's my theory. What if the dreamselves are somehow living in the past of the Incipisphere, while the consorts are still living? And in the meantime the realselves are in the present? And yes, I am suggesting that at the time that the Nobles are playing the session, Prospit and Derse are completely in ruins after so many years.

[LMLYP]

What if the dreamselves are somehow living in the past of the Incipisphere, while the consorts are still living? And in the meantime the realselves are in the present? And yes, I am suggesting that at the time that the Nobles are playing the session, Prospit and Derse are completely in ruins after so many years.

i really like this concept. the condesce could easily have abandoned her crumbling empire and skipped ahead to confront the nobles in the future. but what about gamzee? im hesitant to believe he could use aradia's timeboxes to travel millions of years into the past. oops i forgot jane entered and what happens to the dreamselves during all that time?

[Blaperile]

i really like this concept. the condesce could easily have abandoned her crumbling empire and skipped ahead to confront the nobles in the future. but what about gamzee? im hesitant to believe he could use aradia's timeboxes to travel millions of years into the past. and what happens to the dreamselves during all that time?

No, according to my theory the realselves are in the present, thus the Gamzee we saw is in the present too, while the dreamselves are in the past.

Jake's dreamself is dead, thus sort of irrelevant. Dirk's is doing a revolution, and my theory is that he'll find a way to go from the past to the present and at some point get killed. Roxy's is out in the Furthest Ring. It could be that once it finds its way back to the Medium, it actually ends up in the present and eventually gets killed.

For the latter 2, this would explain why their lanterns went out so much longer after Jake's went out and Jane's briefly went out.

As to Jane's dreamself, I think that WQ might give her some kind of special mission.

[Hytheter]

The only problem with that is that it would make Jane's still living dreamself incredibly old, but that's not enough to discredit the entire theory.
It's certainly possible, with some sort of shenanigans filling in the gaps.

[ocpmovie]

Roxy will get sober.

Cos that shit was poison, yo.

And then sober Roxy will go on a killing spree.

You'll hear it echoing in the distance ...

wonk

WONK

[Jolts]

IDE/Theory: Like we know, all consorts are dead when the Nobles will get into the session. And at the time the consorts were still living, the lanterns of Jake and Jane went out (and the latter back on). But this is a bit weird, because the lanterns would predict what's happening in the future then, right?

But here's my theory. What if the dreamselves are somehow living in the past of the Incipisphere, while the consorts are still living? And in the meantime the realselves are in the present? And yes, I am suggesting that at the time that the Nobles are playing the session, Prospit and Derse are completely in ruins after so many years.

Allow me to direct you to a post I made right after the first MystStuck update.

So it's fairly certain that the lanterns represent the current alive/dead state of the dreamselves. I noticed though, that apparently Jake and Jane's lanterns went out while the consorts still lived on the planet, which was apparently centuries before Jane arrived. But to us it seemed as though they were just recently killed chronologically, so it doesn't make sense. The answer? The consorts were all alive on their planets during Jane and Jake's time (when they were both killed), but Roxy and Dirk live either centuries or thousands of years later. They're all arriving at their respective worlds in Roxy and Dirk's time rather than their own. So I'm thinking that while we don't know why Skaia did this for all of the kids, it at least ties into what appears to be Jane's personal quest.

[Blaperile]

Allow me to direct you to a post I made right after the first MystStuck update.

Heh, cool.

I hadn't read your post at the time, so it's cool that we sort of both had the same ideas.

[Jolts]

Heh, cool.

I hadn't read your post at the time, so it's cool that we both had the same ideas, sort of.

Yeah, definitely! If multiple people picked up on that then it really makes me more confident about the theory.

[Druplesnubb]

No, according to my theory the realselves are in the present, thus the Gamzee we saw is in the present too, while the dreamselves are in the past.

Jake's dreamself is dead, thus sort of irrelevant. Dirk's is doing a revolution, and my theory is that he'll find a way to go from the past to the present and at some point get killed. Roxy's is out in the Furthest Ring. It could be that once it finds its way back to the Medium, it actually ends up in the present and eventually gets killed.

For the latter 2, this would explain why their lanterns went out so much longer after Jake's went out and Jane's briefly went out.

As to Jane's dreamself, I think that WQ might give her some kind of special mission.

It could also mean that their realselves will get killed, since they are in the present. Then either Dirk or Roxy's dreamselves travel to the future or Jane and Jake's dreamselves travel back to the past and they all meet up and prepare the arrival of the kids and trolls

[Woe Kitten]

It just occurred to me that LoPaN could stand for Land of Pyres and Neon. It would stick with the dead land theme (assuming there is one) while looking more visually distinct from crypts. Also, if it's Dirk's, then all the coolkids would have fire in their lands.

[Woe Kitten]

You might also be able to tie it in to the opposite of his aspect, with funeral pyres being used to reduce a body to its component elements i.e. get rid of the last remnants of the self. A bit of a stretch, maybe, but Heart is a pretty nebulous aspect.

EDIT because of accidental double post.

[Vanymstorm]

THEORY: By the time we catch up with Vriska's allegedly pending rampage, she will have amassed a small posse (Team Fuck Shit Up?) including at least one A1 player.

[Scarlet Smiles]

I'm not sure, I think that Jack might be a little bit stronger than Condesce. She just has a lot of Troll powers, while he has First Guardian powers..

I do as well. High level god tier characters can match Jack in combat, but have a low chance winning. The Condesce could spar with him, but she'd still lose. I was only agreeing with the idea that she was formidable, and had reached the god boss level that mspa villans always reach nowadays. It's like handing out signatures at a book signing, everyone just has to get it.

[azhdrake]

For the people talking about B2 Medium time, we don't even know what a "year" is on LOCAH, or how long one might take. I would assume that it would be the amount of time that it would take for the Land to orbit Skaia, something that is quite likely shorter then an Earth year, but it could be something different. Millions of years, well undeniably a considerable length, may be significantly shorter then we are assuming.

Not that it is hugely relevant, it just has been bothering me since MystStuck came out and I kept forgetting to post it.

[Jolts]

That's a good point azhdrake. That actually helps my theory a bit, since if a year on LOCAH is much shorter than an earth year it explains how millenniums have passed there while Dirk and Roxy are only 4 (ish?) centuries in earth's future.

[Sparrowsmith]

I do as well. High level god tier characters can match Jack in combat, but have a low chance winning. The Condesce could spar with him, but she'd still lose. I was only agreeing with the idea that she was formidable, and had reached the god boss level that mspa villans always reach nowadays. It's like handing out signatures at a book signing, everyone just has to get it.

The only person to properly challenge Jack has been Alt-Vriska.
All that Vriska had to help her win was her unbelievable luck, and being a very very high level.

Condesce is probably a much higher level, given that it's been jacked up. On her own she could probably pose a challenge, now add to that all her trolls powers, and I'm thinking she could kill Jack.
At the very least she can use GCat to continuously send him to the Green Sun. She could probably use Bec to steal his ring.
Add into this mix that Vriska can EASILY manipulate carapaces, so it stands to reason that so can the Condesce.

I just don't see why anyone would think Jack could win.

[Legendary]

There's still a simpler explanation with LOCAH. Nanna states that the Incipisphere as a whole is both very ancient and yet quite young, in that it exists because John entered, but also existed the whole time waiting for him. There's some evidence that lands are similar: having an ancient history but only existing as soon as their respective player enters. It's already been shown that LOFAF was definitively not in its expected location during [S] Jack: Ascend. The LOLAR animation suggests LOLAR came into being because of Rose's entrance. This would be similar. The lanterns only existed as long as Jane was there, but they have a fake backstory in which they've been out for ages. This resolves the dreamself question much more simply by having Jane and her dreamself be temporally in synch right now, existing at the same point in the timeline. This is important because otherwise she'll either miss millions of LOCAH years or be dreaming about events millions of years ago!

[cyberHeroine]

We've also seen that Jack could annihilate thousands of carapaces without even trying, even only triple-prototyped. GCat is really the Condesce's biggest asset in this hypothetical battle, and her other psychic powers are really kind of pointless.
Note that the Condesce beat the Handmaid before she was jacked up by English. We have no idea how much power English actually gave her, and there is evidence that Clockwork Magyyks don't actually do much to First Guardians.

[nsinned]

Roxy will get sober.

Cos that shit was poison, yo.

And then sober Roxy will go on a killing spree.

You'll hear it echoing in the distance ...

wonk

WONK

are you next?

[Vanymstorm]

I just don't see why anyone would think Jack could win.

Well for starters, there's what we know about how Vriska's power works; it's apparently a fairly standard implanted suggestion deal. Could she control Jack? Sure, I wouldn't doubt it at all, but there's more to it. Second factor is psychological: what does she do then? Well obviously she turns him against any other enemies she might have in the vicinity. Whether he kills them or they kill him, she wins. Maybe start with that infuriatingly familiar girl who also seems to have First Guardian powers, seems like she ought to be a high-priority target, and she'll just teleport in to help anyone else you send him after anyway. What could possibly go wrong?

[Sparrowsmith]

Well for starters, there's what we know about how Vriska's power works; it's apparently a fairly standard implanted suggestion deal. Could she control Jack? Sure, I wouldn't doubt it at all, but there's more to it. Second factor is psychological: what does she do then? Well obviously she turns him against any other enemies she might have in the vicinity. Whether he kills them or they kill him, she wins. Maybe start with that infuriatingly familiar girl who also seems to have First Guardian powers, seems like she ought to be a high-priority target, and she'll just teleport in to help anyone else you send him after anyway. What could possibly go wrong?

This was a Condesce V Jack fight, I have no doubts that if you bring Jade, PM, and everyone else into the fray, that suddenly it looks very bad for the Condesce.
However, as a stand along villain, lets not underestimate the best that LE could do AND THEN SOME. Hussie likes to one up himself each time, why should Condesce be any different? I think she is more powerful than Jack, and still fears LE. She's a warning of just how powerful LE is, all of Homestuck has been building to that.

Actually, I'm redacting what I just said.
When Jack and PM show up, Condesce assumes control of both. That make Gcat, Jack, and PM. That's three first guardians along with her own Handmaid powers, troll powers, and jacked up levels, against a handful of god tier players, one of which has first guardian powers.
Considering Jack and Vriska (high level god tier) were roughly equally matched, then John, Rose, and Dave are screwed against three first guardians.
Jade might last longer, but the odds will quickly turn against her.

Worst case scenario? Condesce puts EVERYONE to sleep and then murders the resistant trolls.
Really. It isn't a contest. Troll powers are WAAAAAY overpowered in the right hands. The only reason (I assume) that Vriska never controlled Jack was that she didn't have strong enough manipulation, or couldn't control the bec part of her. Condesce does not have that limitation.