I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose my theory that if you're a Page, at some point it's mandatory that you be confined to a wheelchair. Any proposals as to how we get Jake into this situation?
Anyway though, this is just semantics really.
So the next rung on Jane's echeladder
Is "Heiress Sans Parent"
Is this terrible? Y/Y
(1) I agree. Full of contradictions. The problem is, we don't know how seriously Andrew still follows his first example. It's very possible that this model of a doomed timeline applies to every other doomed timeline. The problem is, we simply haven't seen it in a way that could be applied to the other doomed timelines.* There are aspects of doomed timelines that are shown here that simply... haven't been mentioned at all. It could be due to our own shallow analysis, but I do think that it would be rather hard to draw connections between the first example and the others. It seems like this was Andrew experimenting with the idea, and he decided to change the idea a little the next time he implemented it.So 2nd attempt. I'll try to be more systematic than at the first try.
First some lingo, for easier writing: TL-timeline, DTL-doomed timeline
So, Rose and Dave timeline. That's so unique, and that's why I have troubles with it. Because recently Aranea gave us a canon definition of DTLs. It's a TL, that came from a choice that Paradox Space thinks that shouldn't have happened. And it doesn't advence the "plot". Therefor it's destiny is to wither and die.
No let's analyze the R-D TL. It was doomed, because A: John died and B: Calsprite. At least one of these. BUT this TL must happen so that a: Davesprite and Lil' Cal can exist and b: Rose can get expanded knowledge. Therefor it helped the "main" TL to advance. So by the definition Aranea gave us, it can't be DTL. But there's Rose. She 'ceased to exist', not simply died. That might mean that the TL withered and died. So it's a DTL. But then what's up with Dave, and bluh bluh... you get the picture. This TL is full with contradictions. (1)
Also, there's Aradia, Dave and Terezi who all talked about doomed selves. But does that necessary means that they come from a DTL? Definetly not.
For example, Aradia did something similar as Dave: brought a code from a "DTL" back to the main story. It. Advanced. The. Main. TL. (I'm not trying to be rude, just emphasize the importance of this) (2)
(Warning: from this point, it gets a little incoherent)
Another strange thing about DTLs. Dead trolls. If Rose's destiny is what really should have happened, then they shouldn't exist in the Furthest Ring, which as we know that however strange it behaves, has only one timeline, the main one. (3) So all those dead trolls are part of the main TL now. They got killed not because they were living in a DTL and therefor they shouldn't exist at all, because then they should have just simply 'ceased to exist'. Instead they got killed, and "live on" in the main TL. (4) And as we saw in the case of Cod Tier!Feferi and Duck Tier!Eridan, they needed to exist in order to help in the main TL. (5) So again, by the definition of Aranea, they couldn't come from a DTL, could they? This paragraph was more about the dream bubbles than the DTLs, but it ties into it. Because what if another reason the dream bubbles exist is this:
Paradox Space doesn't care about doomed timelines, it only makes sure that there is maximum only ONE living version of everybody. But because it's plan has so many little details, ONE version of each character is not enough. So it makes sure that the DTL people get killed, and imported into the main TL for later use. (6) But than can the TL they came from really called doomed? (7)
So, you see, that's why I asked your help. Because I'm surely forgeting about a really important piece of the puzzle.
edit: after posting this, but before reading everything else I had another IDE: What if the thing that made R-D TL DTL was the fact that Dave left the timeline. *
(2) Emphasize it with italics or underlining. As to your statements... Yeah. I don't know if a DTL is completely unable to influence the Alpha. I think a DTL can influence it without necessarily becoming anything more or less than a DTL. I personally believe that sometimes the Alpha timeline will fall "off-track" and do something it's not supposed to. I call these "Natural Doomed Timelines", because they form naturally, without outside influence. Natural DTLs are the primary enemy of time players, who use time travel to correct whatever error was made to cause these timelines. Aradia gives so many examples, it's hard to simply shrug it off. Through her thousand robots, we can infer that every single one of them came from a Natural DTL that had to be corrected. Artificial DTLs would be those caused by outside influence or unnecessary action. For example, when Dave tries to stop DD and dies. The timeline he leaves behind becomes artificially doomed because it no longer has a Dave in it, and therefor all of the events that Dave needs to participate in will no longer occur. Remember, it wouldn't have been an offshoot timeline at all, if Dave had managed to form a stable timeloop. That's probably what Dave was intending to do, before he died.
(3) I disagree. I don't think it has a timeline at all. All of the dreambubbles have separate self-contained timelines.
(4) Well, they "live on" in their dream bubble, which is fairly separated from the many timelines we have seen so far. Remember, we don't have one timeline to witness, we have many. And, even with all these timelines to watch, the dream bubbles are still separated. I guess, given the fact that these timelines all contribute to one singular timeline in the very end, we could sort of infer a grand timeline of sorts. Because Gcat is certainly part of the B2 timeline, and Gcat is powered by the Green Sun, which was created by the Kids' session, which contained a bomb that housed the A and B universes which both had to end in order for the bomb to detonate. I guess you could say that there is a sort of grand timeline, in a way, as if a great river with all of the individual timelines forming tributaries flowing into it.
(5) Ah! That's an interesting point! Hmm. Truthfully, I don't know how to answer that, but you do seem to be right. If we were to ignore the D-R DTL, it would be easy to imagine dream bubbles as the last remnants of DTLs, preserved in Paradox Space almost like a bubble of air trapped in ice. You do bring up a good point. We almost... can't accept the D-R DTL and the Dream Bubbles at the same time.
(6) I understand what you're saying about this, and I think I agree. It seems a little strange to me, honestly. It definitely has challenged my thinking on the matter. I don't know if it necessarily has to make sure the doomed players die, but it seems plausible. Over all, it sounds good to me.
(7) I think the distinction here is not between timeline and Doomed timeline, but rather between Doomed timeline and unimportant timeline. Doomed timelines contribute to the alpha in many different ways, but I don't think they've ever contributed to it without the medium of a time player. Perhaps the dream bubbles are simply one more way for DTLs to contribute to the alpha?
(*) Back in my first point, I had an idea, and I guess it relates to your idea expressed at the bottom of the post. I didn't stop to explain it there, 'cause it'd interrupt my thoughts. So, here's something to think about. As a Knight of Time, Dave's task is to protect. It's possible that he protects timelines by being in them. In a way, his presence in a timeline saves it from collapse. As a reversal of this, timelines would collapse without him there. Aradia's role as a Maid would be to support timelines, in a sense. I'm not sure if the D-R DTL was doomed by Dave leaving, necessarily, but I think it faded away because of this. You might think that it couldn't be possible for every doomed timeline without a time player to collapse, but consider the fact that we've never seen a doomed timeline that specifically had no hero of time in it. Godtier Feferi most likely came from a timeline that Aradia didn't abandon. At least, we don't have any evidence to say that Godtier Feferi couldn't have died before Aradia left the timeline.
Yea gads, man. Do you want to keep me up all night, Doom? I'll read that in the morning.
Anyone else think Bronze Rebel sounds like that song in the desert prison in LoZ: OoT? That's what it reminded me of.
Last edited by genteelGunslinger; 04-08-2012 at 01:15 PM.
But seriously, Dani, why do you have to read everything? You just confuse everyone with you past thread reading and commenting... (Although I find it amusing to tell the truth)
Last edited by phantasmalDexterity; 04-08-2012 at 01:20 PM.
Last edited by Karp; 04-08-2012 at 01:19 PM. Reason: no editing for correctness occuring here, nope.
I have another piece of the puzzle to add to your theory, though.
Your last line, "Maybe Page is the strongest class but requires the most work," correlates to something Tavros once said. Tavros, the page. He was describing the Lancer class in FLARP, saying that it was weak to begin with but with some work becomes one of the most powerful classes.
I'm paraphrasing here, but I'm probably not too far off the real quote.
I think you're on to something, really.
It actually occurs to me that LE would probably make an excellent postal carrier himself.
"How can you receive the mail...WHEN I'VE ALREADY DELIVERED IT?" /tiredoldjoke