IDE/Theory Thread 25: The Red Supergiant is the Forge

[InvertedVoid]

Well. Dirk's head has been cut off. And delivered. Jake's head is still intact though. Perhaps this is one of those red herrings which swim through the veins of uu.

Theory: The B1 players' quests will be completed on the B2 players' worlds, on the grounds that we've seen one firefly be freed on LOCAH. John never quite succeeded in freeing the fireflies more than temporarily, Rose never did anything at all with playing the rain. Someone has to play some rain. Then I have no real idea what LOHAC's quest was, something to do with caledfwlch I guess? I dunno. And LOFAF's quest was the frog breeding I guess, which better get done, otherwise B2 loses.
Mostly I just want to know what the heck playing the rain even means.

Theory: Gamzee is about to pop up out of nowhere, timetravel Dirk and Roxy into the future, and throw weird stuff into one of their sprites.


I remember someone having a theory about uu seriously being the Waste of Time. Well, on this page: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003256
we see Karkat, about to play a game which will lead to the creation of the B universe frog, in which uu will be, whom many people believe to be LE, who wears an oversized coat. And is colossal. And causes serious tense problems.
EVERYTHING YOU ARE ABOUT TO DO MAY PROVE TO HAVE BEEN A COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME, the Waste of Time here being a colossal version of uu.
this makes sense

[Storm980]

Well. Dirk's head has been cut off. And delivered. Jake's head is still intact though. Perhaps this is one of those red herrings which swim through the veins of uu.

Theory: The B1 players' quests will be completed on the B2 players' worlds, on the grounds that we've seen one firefly be freed on LOCAH. John never quite succeeded in freeing the fireflies more than temporarily, Rose never did anything at all with playing the rain. Someone has to play some rain. Then I have no real idea what LOHAC's quest was, something to do with caledfwlch I guess? I dunno. And LOFAF's quest was the frog breeding I guess, which better get done, otherwise B2 loses.
Mostly I just want to know what the heck playing the rain even means.

Theory: Gamzee is about to pop up out of nowhere, timetravel Dirk and Roxy into the future, and throw weird stuff into one of their sprites.


I remember someone having a theory about uu seriously being the Waste of Time. Well, on this page: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003256
we see Karkat, about to play a game which will lead to the creation of the B universe frog, in which uu will be, whom many people believe to be LE, who wears an oversized coat. And is colossal. And causes serious tense problems.
EVERYTHING YOU ARE ABOUT TO DO MAY PROVE TO HAVE BEEN A COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME, the Waste of Time here being a colossal version of uu.
this makes sense

Erm, nope.

Remember, nothing gets prototyped Pre-Entry, and Gamzee would have no reason to take Dirk and Roxy to the future.

Dirk's robots already have the entering sequences covered so their planets WILL exist, the only thing being they will all enter on Jake's planet at the same time.

Also, the game takes place during Jake and Janes' time period. Their dreamselves just operate out of the normal time-space continuom (<-- spelling?)

Sure, once the planets are there Gamzee will most liekly chuck in a few dead trolls, but as for now,

NOPE.

[colonelopopcorn]

Wasn't there a thing about all the Alpha kids' planets being noble gases or something? Like JaNe=Neon, JaKe=Krypton, DiRk=Radon, RoXy=Xenon? And of course LOCAH=Helium. Well, it's looking more and more likely that the other kids won't get enter the medium via the game, since they're all in the same spot anyway and they can get in through the transportalizers. So that means that their incipisphere looks like a model of a hydrogen atom. This doesn't account for argon, though.

I guess it's likely that somebody else has said this, but nobody's mentioned it in the last three pages of this thread, so there.

[InvertedVoid]

Erm, nope.

Remember, nothing gets prototyped Pre-Entry, and Gamzee would have no reason to take Dirk and Roxy to the future.

Dirk's robots already have the entering sequences covered so their planets WILL exist, the only thing being they will all enter on Jake's planet at the same time.

Also, the game takes place during Jake and Janes' time period. Their dreamselves just operate out of the normal time-space continuom (<-- spelling?)

Sure, once the planets are there Gamzee will most liekly chuck in a few dead trolls, but as for now,

NOPE.

Gamzee doesn't need reasons. Actually, who knows. He'll do it for the same reason he threw stuff into Jane's sprite, I guess.

I'm not entirely sure if a robot can really cover the entry sequence. They might be able to set up the card and all, but I think the player has to enter with their own house. Although I guess that's no real rule, but it feels right. However, the robots can certainly set it up so Dirk and Roxy have one buttonpress each to enter in the next flash.

Oh, and besides, Jake still needs to go topple a certain urn before he enters??? And be decapitated??? Dead on arrival?

And no, I was not at all suggesting that Gamzee pre-entry prototypes. I thought it was assumed that I meant after everyone entered, but I suppose it's my fault for not clarifying that.


Am I wrong, or is Dirk the first player to open his cruxtruder without the help of his server player? I seem to remember that being some manner of thing.


(continuum is spelled continuum, I'm pretty sure.)



EDIT: THIRD LETTER NOBLE GASES THAT'S CRAZY

[phantasmalDexterity]

Wasn't there a thing about all the Alpha kids' planets being noble gases or something? Like JaNe=Neon, JaKe=Krypton, DiRk=Radon, RoXy=Xenon? And of course LOCAH=Helium. Well, it's looking more and more likely that the other kids won't get enter the medium via the game, since they're all in the same spot anyway and they can get in through the transportalizers. So that means that their incipisphere looks like a model of a hydrogen atom. This doesn't account for argon, though.
I guess it's likely that somebody else has said this, but nobody's mentioned it in the last three pages of this thread, so there.

Helium is Already Jane's planet.
And they have to bring the planets in. It was foretold by LOCAH's consorts. See: Myststuck.

[colonelopopcorn]

And they have to bring the planets in. It was foretold by LOCAH's consorts. See: Myststuck.

Yeah, and now I'm reading everybody's theories that Sawtooth and Squarewave will bring in the other planets. That's too bad, I really wanted this universe to be a hydrogen atom. Since it's the simplest atom and this is a creation myth and all. Maybe three planets will be destroyed eventually and we can all be happy.

[LMLYP]

Red Supergiant

what if the sun isn't a supergiant

what if uu and UU, and the meteor, and their planet

are actually really really small

a lot of these meteors are kind of like big seeds. she is a tiny insect and cannot possibly lift more than the weight of a pumpkin seed.

[cardiacAtrophy]

The existence of jpeg statues of liberty isn't actually conclusive evidence.
And Calliope has already stated more than once that she isn't in the same universe as Post-Scratch Earth.
Also, our sun isn't big enough to become a Red Supergiant

If Calliope says it, it's because that's what she believes. That doens't mean it's true.


As well, our sun is EXACTLY big enough to become a Red Giant. How do we know that calliope knows it's a red SUPERGIANT?

What if it's what she...believes?

[dcheng334]

Okay. here goes.
IDE/THEORY-

The existence of jpeg statues of liberty isn't actually conclusive evidence.
And Calliope has already stated more than once that she isn't in the same universe as Post-Scratch Earth.
Also, our sun isn't big enough to become a Red Supergiant

Citing this evidence I would initially assume that the Red Supergiant would be Alternia's Sun, which would also place the cherub's session out of the B2 Post-Scratch kids' universe. However, the jpeg liberties are just so explicitly shown that they must be indicative of B2 Dave's shenanigans, in one way or another. And looking at the sun's texture in this page, it seems to resemble that of the Green Sun...! So what I am proposing is that the cherubs are located not in another universe, but in fact in orbit around the Green Sun! The cherubs are inhabiting the remains of B2 Post-Scratch Earth, albeit orbiting the Green Sun at an advanced stage in its stellar evolution such that it has become a red-superhyperextremelygiganticgiant. The Sun's...unusual...formation nonetheless does not excuse it from behaving like a normal star, and since larger stars have proportionally shorter lifespans, would burn through its fuel unimaginably quickly (on the order of hundreds of years? decades even? compared to a 60 solar-mass star living 3 million years). Yep.

edit: In continuation with the implications of this theory, the eventual death of Calliope's sun could be the impetus for her departure for her session. Also, if her sun is in fact the Green Sun, its death may mark the entrance of Lord English from uu into the multiverse and paradox space. Furthermore, if the cherubs and within close proximity to the Sun, it would open of the possibility of interactions between them, Bec Noir & PM, or even Aradia & Sollux. maybe.

[Matrix]

Wasn't there a thing about all the Alpha kids' planets being noble gases or something? Like JaNe=Neon, JaKe=Krypton, DiRk=Radon, RoXy=Xenon? And of course LOCAH=Helium. Well, it's looking more and more likely that the other kids won't get enter the medium via the game, since they're all in the same spot anyway and they can get in through the transportalizers. So that means that their incipisphere looks like a model of a hydrogen atom. This doesn't account for argon, though.
I guess it's likely that somebody else has said this, but nobody's mentioned it in the last three pages of this thread, so there.

Helium is Already Jane's planet.
And they have to bring the planets in. It was foretold by LOCAH's consorts. See: Myststuck.

Squarewave and Sawtooth are going to deal with Dirk and Roxy's houses' entries.

[Vanymstorm]

As well, our sun is EXACTLY big enough to become a Red Giant. How do we know that calliope knows it's a red SUPERGIANT?

What if it's what she...believes?

THEROY: She has no idea what the difference is... but the narrator knows. Oh, by the way, it was referred to as a supergiant in the narration.

So let's think about what you're saying from the writer's standpoint. Your assertion is that the narrator is outright lying in order to create contradictory evidence, rather than the usual methods of misdirection and concealment. This would be a very shitty and boring "prank." This sort of thing has never proven to be a sound claim before, can you explain why it is now?

[sxizzor]

ok so there's pretty much no way the autoresponder didn't orchestrate this all somehow. his convo with dirk re mountains + skull + dude-kissing, as well as claiming he is linked hella tight cyberways with lil seb and then lil seb leading jane to derse. but why???

here is why

1. he keeps telling jake "kiss me" or some variant. not once does he say "kiss him" or "kiss dirk", he only comes close with "rad kissing you are about to perform on the severed head of your best bro to save his life" or something like that. he also says "our love".
2. the flash is called "dirk: unite" and opens with his heart symbol glowing and shit, almost as if he is doing some sort of hearty thing. perhaps a thing involving his splinpers.
3. his lantern exploded and there's no way that's not significant, especially considering that jane and roxy's lanterns were still out and in one piece. also there's a firefly inside it, which is also significant, but there's no reason to think that's unique to dirk's. what is interesting is that the firefly stops glowing after the lantern explodes.
4. the whole corpse-puppet thing from weekend at bernie's. who better to do such a thing than a puppetmaster ???

so ide/theory: shades is now in control of dirk's body and/or merged with dirk somehow. dirk, if he's not merged with ar (or if they don't end up having separate consciousnesses in the same body like UU/uu) is either dead or erased from existence altogether, in which case ar will basically be using his corpse as a puppet. we won't find this out until way later, of course. jake will probably be the one to notice (maybe with shades slipping up and going "it seems" one too many times). ar's insulting of humans and their bodies is just a cover up for how much he wanted one of his own, enough to kill dirk for his.

[colonelopopcorn]

Oh, and with that "Lil Hal" business, there's now officially no way that the autoresponder won't talk to the Beta kids eventually, if just for the inevitable 2001 jokes with Dave.

[spriteless]

IDETHERY: The Nobles, in addition to dream and normal selves, also have firefly selves.

[Mpete]

IDE:the A1 trolls personality will match the A2 troll of the same class, this seems to fit with the 2 that we've seen
also IDE:the end of act 6 act 3 will be a 3X enter combo

[Arcanum]

ARANEA: He has had many incarnations in many universes.
ARANEA: If you continue on your journey for long enough, you may encounter one of them.
ARANEA: And if you have 8ecome strong enough 8y then, you may 8e a8le to defeat him in com8at.
ARANEA: And if that comes to pass, it would 8e the first defeat he has ever known.
ARANEA: You would 8e providing the first glimmer of hope to others that some day, he could 8e destroyed.

Thanks to Weird Time Shit, and the possibility of LE = uu = "Lord" of Time, LE can exist as the harbinger of destruction in paradox space in multiple places. Thanks to the timelessness of the Furthest Ring, LE has the possibility to be in any instance of any universe, if allowed. It would stand that since the Green Sun has always been there, except for the (small) period of time prior to Dave and Rose detonating the Tumor in the middle of the Furthest Ring, and since the Green Sun was made of the masses of 2 destroyed universes (A and B), it would stand that Doc Scratch was the very first "host" for English, and that he has always been there because he was created alongside the Green Sun.

IDE/Theory: Lord English, while his roots are planted somewhere else (possibly uu, possibly Maplehoof/Tinyhoof), became the unstoppable Time Demon he is renowned for because of A2 and Doc Scratch, and has been around for as long as the Green Sun has been, which stands to be eternity. He completed his time loop by creating Lil' Cal, which enabled him to enter Scratch during the FG creation the BQ did, allowing him to enter everything.

Also, on this page;

On the eve of their race's extinction, the twelve heroes would begin playing a game. They would make an admirable effort, but they would fail. Their civilization had not prepared them for the rigors of this game, and the ultimate reward would fall shy of their grasp. But their failure was more comprehensive, more systemic, than a result of simple inadequacy so common to young players of this game. Though they could not recognize it for the bad omen it was, this session was not the one in which they had been spawned. Such is the symptom of a subtle glitch affecting certain sessions, an error designed to trigger an unfathomable cascade of misfortune throughout paradox space. This glitch is the calling card of the one I serve. It is the discreet, gentlemanly manner in which he reserves his place in a universe for later visitation.

IDE/Theory: English's calling card is in B2, and stands to be in at least one instance of a universe where a scratch took place, whether it be pre-scratch (as in A1, where he reserved his place in A2) or post-scratch (in B2). Remember, John ectobiologically created Jane, Jake, Roxy and Dirk in the B1 session. There will most likely be no ectobiology shenanigans in the B2 session, since they were already created. Following the pattern thus far (A1 calling card -> A2 arrival), if the B1 kids are able to successfully grow bslick in the B2 Skaia, Lord English would have his way with the new universe. Which is possibly the uUniverse, based on time shenanigans.

If the breach in paradox space that has been described before is a stable time loop that has yet to be finished, and the kids and trolls have to fix it, then the 5th instance created (U1?) will be the universe in which LE is initially formed, in that uu becomes LE.

Is it obvious that I subscribe to the theory that uu = LE yet?

As for the lantern exploding when Dirk was brought back, I think that means all of Dirk's splinters have been brought back into one, as shown as the title Unite. The splinter of Dirk that was in Jake's brain but stayed behind during the hellbubble sequence became Dirk temporarily, becoming physical and allowing Aranea to wake him on Earth. That splinter merged into waking!Dirk. Then, Dirk went and offed himself, transportalizing his head to Jake 400 years in the past, completing the time loop, and waking up Dirk on Derse, sending all the splinters back into 1 being. Which brings me to:

IDE/Theory: As the Prince of Heart (one of Prince's abilities, as described by Calliope, is "one who destroys x, or caUses destrUction throUgh x." Focus on the second part), if he ascends, Dirk will be able to "split" himself into splinters of himself, and fight using those. The less splinters, the more powerful the individual/s is/are, and inversely, the more splinters, the less powerful. But at that point, you have the factor of quantity over quality, and while they return to main!Dirk, he gets the factor of quality over quantity. Which could explain why the lantern shattered on LOCAH, since Dirk would be at his most powerful when he is completely together.

Remember, as long as the dreamself is alive, you can get that tiger.

which just means we won't get to see the Page god tier, unless Tavros comes back to life via Vriska's plan to fuck shit up and god tiers somehow.

[DeDreamer]

Trolls contributing to slurry x don't have to contribute at the same time, given the drone system. It's easy to assume that there are always drones returning from space with pails from trolls who contributed anywhere from decades to centuries prior to their arrival. The nearer you are to Alternia, the sooner your genetic material will be added to the slurry. That doesn't mean that it won't be added if you're too far away.

I also came up with the bladder theory while bored at work... I can't believe I've thought about this but yeah. Probably trolls originally procreated in such a way but the Empress did away with it after the Summoner's rebellion with the excuse of depopulation. I'm guessing to put an end to the rebellion she probably had to use her pet horrorterror to wipe out all the lowbloods. Alternia is all about repression so why not throw in some sexual repression for extra spice? The pails are probably a newer addition. Added bonus theory: Young trolls have to learn about sex and other troll culture stuff from mandatory lesson sessions with robots, probably around the time they build a hive. There's got to be some sort of mandatory education to assure literacy and the ability to verbally communicate since most lusii don't talk. Highbloods probably get more information than lowbloods.

Theory: Kanaya, when cooperating with a Hero of Time, can fix tears in the fabric of spacetime.

Much like Stitch, she's been known to restore things and their outfits into their proper form, and as a Sylph, she is naturally biased towards healing and mending.

This will prove instrumental in the downfall of Lrd English.

I don't see why people are bent on making Kanaya irrelevant. I mean, this sounds perfectly reasonable to me. It would make all that stuff with the coat lovely retroactive foreshadowing.

All the trolls who survived are going to be somehow necessary, that's why they survived. They've got three enemies to face: Jack, LE and the troll Empress. Jake seems to be on LE duty. I guess it could be split up that the new kids get LE, our main team gets Jack and the trolls take down the Empress but that's too simplistic (besides, Karkat's super vulnerable to that tiara). Rose sees the workings of fate but she's not good with schemes and that's why she can be deceived by someone like Doc Scratch. (Her vulnerability is an understandable susceptibility to stories.) So they need Terezi to organize a battle plan on all three fronts. The main reason Rose and Dave had to swing by and pick up that meteor is because Terezi's on it. She can do it. I believe in her.

In my head I operate off the theory that Karkat's blood powers have to do with binding and heredity and that's what he'll be needed for since the B1 frog got tossed down a volcano. Somebody is going to have to come up with some kind of replacement and they don't have the materials. That's why it was important for him to be involved in the frog's creation.

Gamzee will be bringing the chaos, a necessary ingredient in any MSP Adventure.

ok so there's pretty much no way the autoresponder didn't orchestrate this all somehow. his convo with dirk re mountains + skull + dude-kissing, as well as claiming he is linked hella tight cyberways with lil seb and then lil seb leading jane to derse. but why???

here is why

1. he keeps telling jake "kiss me" or some variant. not once does he say "kiss him" or "kiss dirk", he only comes close with "rad kissing you are about to perform on the severed head of your best bro to save his life" or something like that. he also says "our love".
2. the flash is called "dirk: unite" and opens with his heart symbol glowing and shit, almost as if he is doing some sort of hearty thing. perhaps a thing involving his splinpers.
3. his lantern exploded and there's no way that's not significant, especially considering that jane and roxy's lanterns were still out and in one piece. also there's a firefly inside it, which is also significant, but there's no reason to think that's unique to dirk's. what is interesting is that the firefly stops glowing after the lantern explodes.

so ide/theory: shades is now in control of dirk's body and/or merged with dirk somehow. dirk, if he's not merged with ar (or if they don't end up having separate consciousnesses in the same body like UU/uu) is either dead or erased from existence altogether. we won't find this out until way later, of course. jake will probably be the one to notice (maybe with shades slipping up and going "it seems" one too many times). ar's insulting of humans and their bodies is just a cover up for how much he wanted one of his own, enough to kill dirk for his.

I don't think Shades is merged with Dirk. I think he will be if that head and the glasses get tossed into a kernel sprite (probably poor Jake's). Remember Shades is a 13 year old version of Dirk, fusing him with Alpha Dirk would be like a much needed system update. Why does he need the update? He's got an obsessive 13 year old's first crush on Jake and he's an incredibly powerful AI and the results of that combination we see laid out before us. Real Dirk might still have a thing for Jake but it's probably not that severe and he could well move on now that he's absorbed Dream Splinter Dirk who was created by Jake's subconscious and has all the information on Jake's feelings and preferences. We won't get to see if they talk about it unless they go into that game mode that let's us see non-gods speak to each other. Or... unless they make a Dirksprite who can hold a spritelog for everyone since they're all present.

Dream Splinter Dirk strikes me as an interesting name for a My Little Pony. That's not a theory that's just a remark.

Oh and throwing Roxy back to Derse.... you can handwave that with Void powers but I think it's pretty damn sketchy unless you want to say The Gods Will It and don't Will the meteor arriving in under three years.

These Gods seem to have awfully erratic powers. Ha, another bonus theory brought to by my boring day job: It's not the Gods keeping the kids from meeting in dreams, it's Gamzee using his nightmare powers.

Who would win in a prank off, John or Gamzee? I would love to see John go back to his Trickster roots. Trickster heroes are the best ones to have on your side when you're up against gods and fate. Just so long as you don't let them get chained to any mountains. Having your internal organs eaten out by an eagle isn't a heroic death or a just punishment so it means infinite respawns and continued torture. That remark proves I need to go to bed.

Edit: Or not, look at that long tempting post above mine.

IDE/Theory: As the Prince of Heart (one of Prince's abilities, as described by Calliope, is "one who destroys x, or caUses destrUction throUgh x." Focus on the second part), if he ascends, Dirk will be able to "split" himself into splinters of himself, and fight using those. The less splinters, the more powerful the individual/s is/are, and inversely, the more splinters, the less powerful. But at that point, you have the factor of quantity over quality, and while they return to main!Dirk, he gets the factor of quality over quantity. Which could explain why the lantern shattered on LOCAH, since Dirk would be at his most powerful when he is completely together.

Remember, as long as the dreamself is alive, you can get that tiger.

This seems reasonable. Also, Dirk can manifest that split in others and that's why Dave has his problem with breaking stuff. It's also why his dreamself was always awake but he wasn't equipped to handle it. Probably we can blame Dave's troubles with establishing his own identity on his upbringing; his attempts to emulate his Bro divided him from his true self. Bro probably didn't even mean for any of this to happen it's just a side effect he has on people he cares about. That's why Jake's confused about his sexuality when really, as Dream Splinter Dirk (my favorite Dirk) pointed out, he shouldn't be. Finally, Dirk seems to know a lot of stuff he maybe shouldn't. Why? It's what he shares with his daughter. He's tied to her through her Seer class (and remember how Rose wasn't very good at her "Light shit" for a long time, almost like she was opposed to the very idea of the aspect) and tied to Dave through the Time aspect (all those time clones). Roxy is tied to Rose through their aspect and the ability to cause black outs and to Dave through a heroic Knight - Robinhood protector mentality. John is referred to as a "doctor" which ties him to the Life aspect. I am way too tired to deal with Jake's class and aspect ties. Maybe I'll figure it out later. Or maybe I won't.

Postcript of the edit: If you skipped this because there was way too much text I don't blame you.

[spriteless]

Obviously Dirk and Jake will double prototype their corpses, and both die on their quest beds, and then we will see what would happen if Sollux had died on his quest bed twice.

[LMLYP]

ok so there's pretty much no way the autoresponder didn't orchestrate this all somehow. his convo with dirk re mountains + skull + dude-kissing, as well as claiming he is linked hella tight cyberways with lil seb and then lil seb leading jane to derse. but why???

here is why

1. he keeps telling jake "kiss me" or some variant. not once does he say "kiss him" or "kiss dirk", he only comes close with "rad kissing you are about to perform on the severed head of your best bro to save his life" or something like that. he also says "our love".
2. the flash is called "dirk: unite" and opens with his heart symbol glowing and shit, almost as if he is doing some sort of hearty thing. perhaps a thing involving his splinpers.
3. his lantern exploded and there's no way that's not significant, especially considering that jane and roxy's lanterns were still out and in one piece. also there's a firefly inside it, which is also significant, but there's no reason to think that's unique to dirk's. what is interesting is that the firefly stops glowing after the lantern explodes.
4. the whole corpse-puppet thing from weekend at bernie's. who better to do such a thing than a puppetmaster ???

so ide/theory: shades is now in control of dirk's body and/or merged with dirk somehow. dirk, if he's not merged with ar (or if they don't end up having separate consciousnesses in the same body like UU/uu) is either dead or erased from existence altogether, in which case ar will basically be using his corpse as a puppet. we won't find this out until way later, of course. jake will probably be the one to notice (maybe with shades slipping up and going "it seems" one too many times). ar's insulting of humans and their bodies is just a cover up for how much he wanted one of his own, enough to kill dirk for his.

weekend at dirk's

this is delightfully plausible

i really, really dont want to consider the AR as a villain though? "evil AI" is hackneyed as shit

[Freack]

i really, really dont want to consider the AR as a villain though? "evil AI" is hackneyed as shit

If you will excuse teh Trope, a lot of "evil AI" falls under more Blue and Orange, or non-comparable morality. So the machine sees the pursuit of truth or perfection or whatever as the point of existance, and is not so much evil as thinking that humans are in the way, which seems evil to us.

Then agian, Hussie has shown that he can use cliches in new ways before. Like, what is more trite than an Evil Clown? But he used that anyways, and changed it and made it his own. I have faith that if it is needed, he can use the Evil AI in a way which will point out and address the cliche, but still be fresh and exciting and squee worthy.

Then again, I like Evil AI so...

[The_Codfish]

If you will excuse teh Trope, a lot of "evil AI" falls under more Blue and Orange, or non-comparable morality. So the machine sees the pursuit of truth or perfection or whatever as the point of existance, and is not so much evil as thinking that humans are in the way, which seems evil to us.

Then agian, Hussie has shown that he can use cliches in new ways before. Like, what is more trite than an Evil Clown? But he used that anyways, and changed it and made it his own. I have faith that if it is needed, he can use the Evil AI in a way which will point out and address the cliche, but still be fresh and exciting and squee worthy.

Then again, I like Evil AI so...

The difference, though, is that in the trope you mentioned, the AI doesn't have morality programmed into it. And even if its creators tried, if the writer follows the trope, the coded morality will be 'imperfect' in some way.

With the AR, he's actually Dirk in computer form. So it's more of an existentialism problem. But he got over it, I guess? He can still be an evil AI, but not because he has a different set of morals, but because he's gone insane-ish (ala GLaDOS).

[Freack]

With the AR, he's actually Dirk in computer form. So it's more of an existentialism problem. But he got over it, I guess? He can still be an evil AI, but not because he has a different set of morals, but because he's gone insane-ish (ala GLaDOS).

Err...

I guess. I guess you could call it insanity, but in a lot of series a crazy person will have their own moral code still, just grossly different from what society accepts. And even if AR stared as Dirk, I think that he is his own entity, mostly separate by now. Three years as a program, which must seem mush longer to him changes a person. So while you could say insanity, that could be argued by a less tired person to just be a state of mind with radically different rules on morality.

I have pretty much no experience with Portal outside of its meme's so the GLaDOS is kind of lost on me, but it sounded like she was trying to do pretty much what Hal did in 2001. He was trying to do SCIENCE, and that was the center driving purpose of his existance, and therefore his morals. When the humans got in the way of that, they were acting a-morally, and had to be destroyed. Maybe I am using morality wrong, but if it just a system by which to judge which actions are good or bad, than yes, all AI would have morality programmed in.

[nostalgebraist]

I could see the "evil AI" thing working as long as it's less "evil" and more "AR has his own set of motivations which is not identical to those of the human cast." Then he'd just be another character, and a potentially interesting one, even if he looks like a cliche from afar.

The most disappointing thing would be for him to just end up being maleficent as a result of being "crazy" or "broken" or something.

[Freack]

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say in a less stupid manner. Seriously, I need to hire people to do that.

Hussie does have experience with writing for different morals codes and goals and such like, what with the troll species very different take on murder. So I do not think that machineized thirteen year old would be too difficult for him to manage.

[The_Codfish]

Err...

I guess. I guess you could call it insanity, but in a lot of series a crazy person will have their own moral code still, just grossly different from what society accepts. And even if AR stared as Dirk, I think that he is his own entity, mostly separate by now. Three years as a program, which must seem mush longer to him changes a person. So while you could say insanity, that could be argued by a less tired person to just be a state of mind with radically different rules on morality.

I have pretty much no experience with Portal outside of its meme's so the GLaDOS is kind of lost on me, but it sounded like she was trying to do pretty much what Hal did in 2001. He was trying to do SCIENCE, and that was the center driving purpose of his existance, and therefore his morals. When the humans got in the way of that, they were acting a-morally, and had to be destroyed. Maybe I am using morality wrong, but if it just a system by which to judge which actions are good or bad, than yes, all AI would have morality programmed in.

GLaDOS 'repressed' a part of herself, I suppose, since she didn't actually want to be an AI (you can speculate the reasons why, and I went with 'identity crisis' as well as 'not wanting to live forever'). So yeah, I'm not saying she's different from Hal in that respect, just that they're crazy for different problems.