IDE/Theory 26: They're totally fine

[Frost]

I liked the theory (way back at the start of the thread) that the blackholesprite was some sort of "trap" set by Sburb. Like, their session is corrupted in some way, or two-player sessions aren't possible, or two players sharing one body causes the game to completely glitch out. Sburb would release two sprites at once as a sort of "kill switch" to ensure, in the most direct and reliable way possible, that the players are completely wiped out.

[Arcanum]

I liked the theory (way back at the start of the thread) that the blackholesprite was some sort of "trap" set by Sburb. Like, their session is corrupted in some way, or two-player sessions aren't possible, or two players sharing one body causes the game to completely glitch out. Sburb would release two sprites at once as a sort of "kill switch" to ensure, in the most direct and reliable way possible, that the players are completely wiped out.

2-player sessions sure are possible, there is a much easier explanation as to why the cherub session is FUBAR. You are, however, very close with "two players sharing one body causes the game to glitch."

There is only 1 entry.

When you enter the game, your kernalsprite divides, unless you don't prototype anything pre-entry. 2 player sessions need 2 prototypings in order to evolve the battlefield so that it can accept the frog. There is only 1 entry. Based on the lack of prototype towers on Prospit, it appears the black hole is just a black hole and isn't prototyping the universe.

However, as to why their Skaia, Prospitians and Dersites are so different is unknown as of yet. It could be a result of a glitched out game, but I sure liked the theory a while back about how their session was much closer to the Green Sun than other sessions, so that Derse would get close to the source of light instead of Prospit. I can't remember the details of that theory, but that was the gist of it.

[Tenebrais]

I find it a highly suspect notion that the game can glitch out. The computer program is just an instantiation routine - it sets up a client/server chain and gets you in, the rest is all as real as anything happening in the universes. It's a (literally) living, conscious, dynamic system. It can handle a planet's First Guardian being prototyped. It can handle one of the destined players being dead. It has failsafes against all manner of session failures. It could surely handle something as relatively mundane as two players sharing a body (essentially one player playing by themself).

On top of all else, everything that has happened in the comic seems to happen by design. Everything happens for a reason, and not just the "it makes a good story" reason, but someone in the plot is pulling the strings of fate.
(Calliope and Caliborn's race should totally have been called Norns)

Lastly, the fact that something as dynamic and interesting as the black hole sprite can happen completely by accident, without someone's intention behind it, is just plain boring as a story element. Hussie is better at that.

[Frost]

I find it a highly suspect notion that the game can glitch out.

When I said "glitch out", what I had in mind wasn't a literal glitch so much as "the game realising that some situation is so far out of the ordinary that things can't possibly proceed normally". Such as, say, two players entering the session in the same body, in a two-player session.

I don't buy that their situation is "relatively mundane"- I mean, none of the fans have any idea what their session is going to look like, or how it's going to play out, which strikes me as pretty telling. There's also the theory that LE is exploiting god-tier resurrection mechanics to make himself indestructible, by hosting a (dormant) god-tier calliope within his body. And Calliope hinted at some point that, though all her studies, she's never heard of a two-player session, so that in itself is way out of the ordinary.

EDIT: Sorry, got that wrong. I think Calliope just called a two-player session "risky".

[metaphysics]

I liked the theory (way back at the start of the thread) that the blackholesprite was some sort of "trap" set by Sburb. Like, their session is corrupted in some way, or two-player sessions aren't possible, or two players sharing one body causes the game to completely glitch out. Sburb would release two sprites at once as a sort of "kill switch" to ensure, in the most direct and reliable way possible, that the players are completely wiped out.

If SBURB was not in the context of the comic, I would agree that this "glitching out" is a possibility and probably likely. The idea is pretty interesting and even reasonable. However, if we consider the fact that it's all set in a webcomic in which the storyline must continue somehow, I greatly doubt that Hussie would write this whole ark with Caliborn and Calliope and Lord English just to have them be sucked up by a black hole and never heard from again. It would just be like, "oh, I'm going to lead you all on for months by slowly introducing these two characters, and then freak you out during this super intense EOA flash, but don't worry, that was just a joke! They just got sucked up by a black hole and don't actually matter. lol"

[Billiards Slick]

Where have we seen Void?

This is from like 2 pages back, but:

We saw it in the Start of A6A3, when Jane was walking around all puzzle like. All four of their symbols were in that flash.

[Storm980]

This is from like 2 pages back, but:

We saw it in the Start of A6A3, when Jane was walking around all puzzle like. All four of their symbols were in that flash.

OH I thought he meant as in seeing it on a player, or as in when a player was using their abilities (Terezi, Vriska, Rose, etc)

[p2mc28]

I felt like throwing this out there after reading that thread that shows scenes that are similar to each other.

I'm banking on (pre)LE losing his eyes to someone playing with needles. Specifically, a rehash of Rose/Ogre Handmaid/Scratch.

[dcheng334]

Perhaps the manner of the glitch is not really a glitch at all but really another exploitation of the game's existing mechanics. The game wouldn't purposefully hinder the advancement of the players in their session by releasing some sort of kill switch lest it counteract the very purpose of the game- which is to allow the cycle of universal propagation to continue. Everything happens by design but if it is indeed possible to navigate and manipulate said design for one's own intentions, then certainly Caliborn is taking that option.
On another note, @Tenebrais, perhaps the relative distance (as much as it means within the context of the furthest ring) of a session to the Green Sun would dictate the potential energy needed for travel throughout P-space. I guess we can sort of think of the Green Sun as having some sort of immense gravity well- a common reference point through which all travel is conducted, for it is the only constant in the uncertainties of P-space. If the cherub's session is indeed close to the Sun, and if such proximity would confer the cherubs any sort of advantage, then perhaps it could play a role in LE's rise to power.

[InvertedVoid]

hey
hey
if the cherubs are on earth in the future

what happened to the moon?


Also, does anyone know of any pattern in the orientation of LE's eyes? Sometimes some of the numbers are upside-down, but not all of them. (The only scenes I can find where you can see this clearly are in Caliborn: Enter and in A6I2 in LE's first appearance, near the beginning of that intermission. As far as I can tell, the eye on the right on that page is upside-right but some, but not all, of the numbers on the left eye are upside-down.

[Storm980]

hey
hey
if the cherubs are on earth in the future

what happened to the moon?


Also, does anyone know of any pattern in the orientation of LE's eyes? Sometimes some of the numbers are upside-down, but not all of them. (The only scenes I can find where you can see this clearly are in Caliborn: Enter and in A6I2 in LE's first appearance, near the beginning of that intermission. As far as I can tell, the eye on the right on that page is upside-right but some, but not all, of the numbers on the left eye are upside-down.

No, I think the Cherubs are in a different universe entirely.

Earth was seen being attacked by the Red Miles, as was B2. We already saw the result of B1 being destroyed.

I mean, it IS possible that the Cherubs reside in Bilious Slick's hand because that was the only part remaning visible after it was attacked.

Also, Dirk was most likely the one who built the robot leg for Caliborn. Somewhere back when Dirk was on Derse dealing with the Jane/Jake fiasco we saw a pesterlog of him talking to Caliborn and about how he was "Thanking Dirk for building him a present"

If I remember correctly, you can only appearify/depearify into/from the same universe/incipisphere so theres that.

Anything is possible.

[metaphysics]

This goes in the theory thread, right?
I was thinking about the possible names of the pre-scratch trolls, and what they would mean. The fandom has basically agreed on Rufio/Rufioh/a variant of that for Nitram, and Jesus/Jegus/a variant for Vantas.
And Jesus/Jegus makes sense, considering the whole mythology of the Ancestors and whatnot. But then, a random idea appeared.
What if instead of being named something like Jesus, Vantas was named Judas
To keep it ironic

[Altum]

No, I think the Cherubs are in a different universe entirely.

Earth was seen being attacked by the Red Miles, as was B2. We already saw the result of B1 being destroyed.

I mean, it IS possible that the Cherubs reside in Bilious Slick's hand because that was the only part remaning visible after it was attacked.

Also, Dirk was most likely the one who built the robot leg for Caliborn. Somewhere back when Dirk was on Derse dealing with the Jane/Jake fiasco we saw a pesterlog of him talking to Caliborn and about how he was "Thanking Dirk for building him a present"

If I remember correctly, you can only appearify/depearify into/from the same universe/incipisphere so theres that.

Anything is possible.

Nah, Jack appearified himself into the troll session from B1. Anyway, Caliborn only thanked Dirk for helping him build something. Much lower bar to clear. Dirk could have just sent him plans, or a captcha code.

[dcheng334]

No, I think the Cherubs are in a different universe entirely.

Earth was seen being attacked by the Red Miles, as was B2. We already saw the result of B1 being destroyed.

I mean, it IS possible that the Cherubs reside in Bilious Slick's hand because that was the only part remaning visible after it was attacked.

Also, Dirk was most likely the one who built the robot leg for Caliborn. Somewhere back when Dirk was on Derse dealing with the Jane/Jake fiasco we saw a pesterlog of him talking to Caliborn and about how he was "Thanking Dirk for building him a present"

If I remember correctly, you can only appearify/depearify into/from the same universe/incipisphere so theres that.

Anything is possible.

This could actually explain quite a bit! Barring the lack of earth's moon in orbit around the cherub's planet, it could explain the jpeg statues, the red supergiant (which our sun is definitely capable of becoming), and the inter universal gift exchange between Dirk and uu.
And @Altum, the wording of uu's statement implies significant effort and time on Dirk's part, and relatively little of uu's. Merely receiving the captcha code for something would be a moot point anyways as uu doesn't even have an alchemiter or the grist to make such a complex item.

[simon.clarkstone]

How would that even work?

The Kernelsprite became a blackhole almost immediately after it emerged from the Cruxtruder.

I'm pretty sure it won't go back to being a normal Kernelsprite at some point.

Maybe Dave saw the ghost/dreamself/memory of the kernelsprite, emerging from the wreckage of the dreambubble.

Crack theory: Caliborn will be instrumental in the death of Lord English, dealing the last blows in a big battle. He will then go on to become Lord English through some convoluted time shit that will eventually result in death by his own hand.

I will go further. I will WMG that LE's place and time or creation are exactly the same as those of his destruction. Lame example: Caliborn smashes into LE, thereby killing him but also gaining his powers for himself.

there are likely many other copies of the kids & trolls scattered throughout the dream bubbles of paradox space, rendering the destruction of the bubble and those inside (at the risk of sounding completely indifferent and callous) insignificant. It's likely that we'll encounter more in the future, alongside the alphas such as those on the meteor or Aradia and Sollux, as LE becomes a more imminent threat to them.

I was assuming that all the bubbles had merged to form that huge one that was destroyed, though on reflection I find I have little evidence for that other than maximising story event significance.

[unbeliever536]

Nah, Jack appearified himself into the troll session from B1. Anyway, Caliborn only thanked Dirk for helping him build something. Much lower bar to clear. Dirk could have just sent him plans, or a captcha code.

No, Jack used a special machine from an exile station (all of which are notably more versatile than anything most players have access to in the first place). WV used the appearifier to mess around with pumpkins and cables. We don't know what the universe-transporter device is called or what its sound effect is, but it looks like a variation on a transmaterializer (which is powerful enough to send things through a Scratch) rather than an appearifier of some type.

[Arcanum]

This could actually explain quite a bit! Barring the lack of earth's moon in orbit around the cherub's planet, it could explain the jpeg statues, the red supergiant (which our sun is definitely capable of becoming), and the inter universal gift exchange between Dirk and uu.

Our sun doesn't quite have the mass to become a red supergiant. It will become a red giant at the end, but it will by no means become a supergiant. The sun has 1 solar mass (as the unit is based on our sun's mass), and any star with a solar mass between 0.5 and 10 isn't large enough to to become a supergiant, or even a bright giant.

And @Altum, the wording of uu's statement implies significant effort and time on Dirk's part, and relatively little of uu's. Merely receiving the captcha code for something would be a moot point anyways as uu doesn't even have an alchemiter or the grist to make such a complex item.

Remember, Caliborn doesn't go linearly like Calliope did (on most occasions, since she supposedly helped Jake build the weapons found in the time capsule and later with the bunny, and that was in her past and their future). For all we know, the time he spent contacting Dirk at that moment was after he entered, when he would have an Alchemiter. And, i'm presuming that Caliborn left the messages for Calliope to read after watching the events himself prior to her falling asleep forever, he would have past-future knowledge to be able to tell Dirk that hes going to die. Dirk still would've spent time and effort on the leg, all Caliborn would've had to do is punch a card and alchemize it.

I was assuming that all the bubbles had merged to form that huge one that was destroyed, though on reflection I find I have little evidence for that other than maximising story event significance.

Not so much merging all the bubbles, but many bubbles intersecting at the same point in time, thanks to various memories being remembered by participants. Interestingly, though, we haven't seen what happens when you are dead in the bubbles and then die again. When you're alive and in the bubbles, you just wake up.

[NæturVindur]

hey
hey
if the cherubs are on earth in the future

what happened to the moon?

LONG before Sol becomes a Red Giant, Earth is going to lose the Moon. Every month the moon moves a few centimeters away from earth (on average), until, several thousand years from now. it'll fly off and do its own thing, probably become a pluto-like object, and get its own heliocentric orbit.

[unbeliever536]

Remember, Caliborn doesn't go linearly like Calliope did (on most occasions, since she supposedly helped Jake build the weapons found in the time capsule and later with the bunny, and that was in her past and their future). For all we know, the time he spent contacting Dirk at that moment was after he entered, when he would have an Alchemiter. And, i'm presuming that Caliborn left the messages for Calliope to read after watching the events himself prior to her falling asleep forever, he would have past-future knowledge to be able to tell Dirk that hes going to die. Dirk still would've spent time and effort on the leg, all Caliborn would've had to do is punch a card and alchemize it.

Except that Caliborn had the leg before he could have done that.

[phantasmalDexterity]

And @Altum, the wording of uu's statement implies significant effort and time on Dirk's part, and relatively little of uu's. Merely receiving the captcha code for something would be a moot point anyways as uu doesn't even have an alchemiter or the grist to make such a complex item.

Actually, if they are on the trolls' meteor... Which they seem to be...
But even if isn't THAT meteor, probably every one of them has such equipment.

[Arcanum]

Except that Caliborn had the leg before he could have done that.

Oh right. Duh. Sorry, disregard that I'm an idiot.

But the meteor probably has alchemiters somewhere, as many probably do. I think that both kingdoms had access and knowledge to use them as well, alchemizing weapons and the like for the war effort, which was the point of the Viel.

[unbeliever536]

It is likely that the meteor has alchemiters on it, now that I think about it, but there's still the problem of grist. He probably could have managed it, though, if that is the trolls' meteor and Jane's Gristwidget wound up on it before it got to cherubland. But he'd need the Gristwidget (and a Gristcache, but we've seen players climb their echeladders without being "in session", so it's reasonable to assume that he would have a Gristcache before running s___b).

[d2r123]

LONG before Sol becomes a Red Giant, Earth is going to lose the Moon. Every month the moon moves a few centimeters away from earth (on average), until, several thousand years from now. it'll fly off and do its own thing, probably become a pluto-like object, and get its own heliocentric orbit.

or a metior with a lab on it.

[InvertedVoid]

Actually, if they are on the trolls' meteor... Which they seem to be...
But even if isn't THAT meteor, probably every one of them has such equipment.

WHY ARE THOSE ALCHIMITERS BLACK.
No seriously. Miscolored phernalia could be pretty darn significant. Maybe.

(uu had the leg while he was still chained up in his room, and there's just about no way his room has space for an alchemiter with enough upgrades to not need a cruxtruder.)

Come to think of it, even if Caliborn is unchained, he still only has access to one room and the top of the highest tower. He can't fly. (I guess maybe ther could be a door on the front wall? We haven't gotten a clear look-see at that one.)

Regarding d2r123's post: I see no problems with the cherubs being on the moon.
Wait. Didn't Daveco shoot all their artifacts into space? Which is why the skateboards fall back down from orbit sometimes? A whole ton of that could have ended up on the moon, easy peasy.

[Legendary]

They're probably miscolored because they're not associated with specific players, but for public use.