GQ's SBURB Thread--New Demo released!

[Rothope]

I just noticed that countdown features imps but ends when you enter the medium.
...how?

[AbsolutlyAngelic]

I think imps in your house are just there to prevent you from getting into the actual game
Then later they're there to fight or something

[Rothope]

What I mean is...
if the game ends when the player enters the medium, then he never meets the imps. The imps show up when the player enters the medium. (by useing the cruxite item.)
Also GUITARKIND, HALBERDKIND, UZIKIND.

[greyscaleQuestioner]

I'm afraid the SBURB Machines Demo's release date will have to be pushed back to mid-October. I won't be able to get it done by the first. The Character Creator will still be releases on the first. Sorry about that everyone.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Oh, that's going to look pretty nice.


I ran into a game called Borderlands 2 yesterday. The weapons system sort of reminded me of alchemy. Or, not so much reminded me of alchemy as it sort of looked like the kind of system alchemy would work well on top of. It's only for guns, but it's got this system where it randomly generates ridiculous quantities of guns, that still manage to have a decent degree of individuality and character. And I think that's half of what alchemy is trying to do, isn't it? Make 87 bazillion unique items without actually designing anywheres near that number of things? Anyway, if you haven't seen the game before, you might want to look into it a little bit,s you might get some useful ideas or inspiration or something.

I think I have alchemization pretty ironed out but this looks pretty cool!

I just noticed that countdown features imps but ends when you enter the medium.
...how?

I probably got my demos mixed up. Imps won't be generated pre-Medium. However, I would rather make the combat system sooner rather than later, so they may be included in a separate demo.

[InvertedVoid]

I think I have alchemization pretty ironed out but this looks pretty cool!

I kind of really want to see something along the lines of that happen.
The Sylladex thread is right over there, and notably lacks an alchemy function.
I think I'm going to fool around with trying that myself.

Aw, whatever, I might as well go the whole mile. Color me unofficially trying to code my own Sburblike.
Not that I really know how to code that well, but maybe something entertaining will come out of it.
I guess it'll be something more focused sort of on fiddling with things, and less on doing things. Like some sort of Sburb sandbox.
Actually, what I'd really want to try making is an alchemy system with something that looks like Sburb set up around it so you can actually do things with your chainsaw katana and pogo armor. So land generation and plot and pesterchum and all will be pretty much ignored.
I'll let you good folks know if this ever gets beyond the 'hey wouldn't that be cool' stage, which it probably won't...

Mind if I end up borrowing some of these images that are floating all over this thread? (I'll give them back when I'm done with them, I promise)


(I'm absolutely not saying I don't think your Sburb is going to be awesome, you've pretty much just inspired me to try making my own thinger.)

[greyscaleQuestioner]

I'm afraid there's a glitch in the Character Creator in which troll skin no longer appears grey, caused by my addition of blood colors. I can fix this, but it would mean pushing back the release date of the Character Creator. So I want to know if you all would rather have the Character Creator on Monday without blood colors (I would later release a version including blood colors), or would you prefer I release it with blood colors in a week or two?

show spoiler

hide spoiler

I kind of really want to see something along the lines of that happen.
The Sylladex thread is right over there, and notably lacks an alchemy function.
I think I'm going to fool around with trying that myself.

Aw, whatever, I might as well go the whole mile. Color me unofficially trying to code my own Sburblike.
Not that I really know how to code that well, but maybe something entertaining will come out of it.
I guess it'll be something more focused sort of on fiddling with things, and less on doing things. Like some sort of Sburb sandbox.
Actually, what I'd really want to try making is an alchemy system with something that looks like Sburb set up around it so you can actually do things with your chainsaw katana and pogo armor. So land generation and plot and pesterchum and all will be pretty much ignored.
I'll let you good folks know if this ever gets beyond the 'hey wouldn't that be cool' stage, which it probably won't...

Mind if I end up borrowing some of these images that are floating all over this thread? (I'll give them back when I'm done with them, I promise)


(I'm absolutely not saying I don't think your Sburb is going to be awesome, you've pretty much just inspired me to try making my own thinger.)

I don't mind at all. The images on this thread are from the comic, so you don't even need my permission, with the exception of the Hero of Blood symbols. You will have to ask trulyElse if you want those. I'm glad you've been creatively inspired!

[Graknorke]

I'm afraid there's a glitch in the Character Creator in which troll skin no longer appears grey, caused by my addition of blood colors. I can fix this, but it would mean pushing back the release date of the Character Creator. So I want to know if you all would rather have the Character Creator on Monday without blood colors (I would later release a version including blood colors), or would you prefer I release it with blood colors in a week or two?

I don't really think that the blood colours are too important. I'd be fine without them.

[Bearstronaut]

I'm afraid there's a glitch in the Character Creator in which troll skin no longer appears grey, caused by my addition of blood colors. I can fix this, but it would mean pushing back the release date of the Character Creator. So I want to know if you all would rather have the Character Creator on Monday without blood colors (I would later release a version including blood colors), or would you prefer I release it with blood colors in a week or two?

Business first. This is as far as I got with the telescope before getting frustrated with it, and all of it's pixels.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

I hope somebody with better skills can fix it. Since I may have ruined it somehow. THIS PAGE and THIS PAGE.

Anyways, if you feel comfortable with releasing it, go ahead. It's nice just to hear feedback on what you're currently doing. I don't think people will mind either way, and if you feel that it should be polished, go right ahead. If you don't mind, and want feedback early, you can release it.
(I wouldn't mind being able to test it early without blood colors)

[shinyjiggly]

I cut out the telescope, gave it new legs, and made the edges fuzzy. I have an uglier version of it available as well.

[greyscaleQuestioner]

I received feedback from just a few people here, and from people I know personally, and the general consensus seems to be that I should release the rough version of the Character Creator early, and then on a later date release a better version that includes blood colors and more parts. So that's what I'm going to to. The rough Creator will be put up tomorrow.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

I don't really think that the blood colours are too important. I'd be fine without them.

Okay. And, they will still be added in a later version regardless.

Business first. This is as far as I got with the telescope before getting frustrated with it, and all of it's pixels.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

I hope somebody with better skills can fix it. Since I may have ruined it somehow. THIS PAGE and THIS PAGE.

Anyways, if you feel comfortable with releasing it, go ahead. It's nice just to hear feedback on what you're currently doing. I don't think people will mind either way, and if you feel that it should be polished, go right ahead. If you don't mind, and want feedback early, you can release it.
(I wouldn't mind being able to test it early without blood colors)

Sure, I'll probably do the rougher version then. And the telescope isn't a terribly big deal, thanks for trying though.

I cut out the telescope, gave it new legs, and made the edges fuzzy. I have an uglier version of it available as well.

Cool thanks!

[greyscaleQuestioner]

Hey, good news. I fixed the glitch, so here's a fully functioning Character Creator that includes blood colors. The options for each part are pretty limited so far. Obviously more will be added later. Any feedback on the interface, functionality, graphics, etc. would be greatly appreciated (also I just realised most of the clothing menus have a skip button that looks pretty terrible; this is because it's a placeholder sprite, and a better one will be used for the button in the next version). The next big thing for the Creator is adding color customization to the clothing.

I still don't have a specific release date for the SBURB Machines Demo, but it's now the only demo I'm working on, so rest assured you will have it soon.

[InvertedVoid]

I fooled around with the character creator a bit. It took me a few tries to figure out which steps did exactly which parts of the body, and a few combinations of things seem to not work at all together / fit together awkwardly, but other than that it all seems pretty good. I'll probably fool around with it more and say some more things after I get my homework done and such.

But congratulations on getting another thing done and working and released!

[Bearstronaut]

Hey, good news. I fixed the glitch, so here's a fully functioning Character Creator that includes blood colors. The options for each part are pretty limited so far. Obviously more will be added later. Any feedback on the interface, functionality, graphics, etc. would be greatly appreciated (also I just realised most of the clothing menus have a skip button that looks pretty terrible; this is because it's a placeholder sprite, and a better one will be used for the button in the next version). I still don't have a specific release date for the SBURB Machines Demo, but it's now the only demo I'm working on, so rest assured you will have it soon.

Haha, no way, that's pretty cool. Pretty much what InvertedVoid said. I can't believe how far this is going. Here's what I got made from that.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Right, I'll go in order for the little or big things I noticed, play-through style. WARNING! This is pretty big.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Maybe the arrows could cycle around completely? Or grey out when you've hit the end of the line. Just a personal nitpick, that the race selection could be Troll/Human in words, instead of grey oval white oval? Not like people can't figure it out though. (Troll) I can't tell what color it is sometimes. Then again, I AM pretty blind. Oh wait. It goes in order. WHOOPS. My mistake. I see it now. (Yellow) Also just a little tiny thing, gender selection could use the symbols, or use words. (Male) Hair has a skip button. Which is... strange. Wonder what happens if I push it. (I'll leave it on Bird Hair.) The eye thing. This has potential to be out of line with the sprite in many ways. To make your life easier, you could maybe have a whole selection of eyes with or without eye wear? That way, things like shades of colored glasses wouldn't have a problem with lining up with certain eyes. Then you only have to deal with eyes/glasses position with head, and not eyes vs glasses vs head. See my fourth. The eyes line up on the head nicely, but getting all three of them, eye-wear, eyes and face all at once seems like a lot of work. Of which you already have enough. You release things so quickly, I'm starting to get worried about you. Not really a problem with eyes or glasses on the face. Just the interaction between eyes and glasses themselves.(Are those John's?) (Put them on the round glasses. Who wore those? I forget) No problems with the mouths. (grey open one) Horns may or may not go well with hair. Better do more tests to find out. (Takes the two at the end) Tops may or may not interfere with the neck. I'm not sure what does that. See first and third. They work okay though. (Third option) Pants [or skirt if and when I tried] that I never saw, since the dress ate them. (PANTS) Coat that I never saw. Maybe the dress ate them too. (NEPETA COAT) Dresses.. Only work properly with females.(skip? Left it at first) Belts, if I'm not mistaken. Works fine as far as I can tell. (Thin black one). Scarves. Second scarf doesn't leave the white line, but first and third do. Maybe it's not the scarf? Works probably. (SKIP leave at pink belt) Shoes. Nothing wrong here. I can't really see though, since I can't wear pants. Or anything other than a dress below. (Running shoes) Hats may or may not work well with actual hair, since I BELIEVE only John, Jade, Jake and Jane have worn hats? I don't even know anymore. (Rumply head object) Symbol sometimes interferes with clothing. Certain articles of clothing may remove the symbol or displace it, such as suits and things. Maybe make them a bit smaller, or something. Other than that, they work as they should. (Atom symbol.)

BEHOLD.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Okay, I am cursed with scarf-dress. Symbol worked fine here, although the neck thing is still there. I think you should leave out hats like this? They interfere with hair sometimes. Or maybe make certain hats only work with certain hair styles/horn styles? I don't know. LOOK SO DERP.

It's good to see that you made progress though. Singlehandedly being able to output content like this. Keep up the good work!

[greyscaleQuestioner]

Alright, so after some thought, I decided to make a Tumblr for this project. I guess it's there to get the word out more.

Oh, and I'm delighted that people have been helping out with the sprites that have been particularly difficult, but just know that the sprite list is completely up to date, so I would love to get those so I can post the next list.

On a completely unrelated note, the Kickstarter has reached two million dollars. If you play all of the sounds on here at once, it pretty much sums up my emotions on the subject.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

I fooled around with the character creator a bit. It took me a few tries to figure out which steps did exactly which parts of the body, and a few combinations of things seem to not work at all together / fit together awkwardly, but other than that it all seems pretty good. I'll probably fool around with it more and say some more things after I get my homework done and such.

But congratulations on getting another thing done and working and released!

Thank you! Might I ask what combinations in particular don't work?

Haha, no way, that's pretty cool. Pretty much what InvertedVoid said. I can't believe how far this is going. Here's what I got made from that.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Right, I'll go in order for the little or big things I noticed, play-through style. WARNING! This is pretty big.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Maybe the arrows could cycle around completely? Or grey out when you've hit the end of the line. Just a personal nitpick, that the race selection could be Troll/Human in words, instead of grey oval white oval? Not like people can't figure it out though. (Troll) I can't tell what color it is sometimes. Then again, I AM pretty blind. Oh wait. It goes in order. WHOOPS. My mistake. I see it now. (Yellow) Also just a little tiny thing, gender selection could use the symbols, or use words. (Male) Hair has a skip button. Which is... strange. Wonder what happens if I push it. (I'll leave it on Bird Hair.) The eye thing. This has potential to be out of line with the sprite in many ways. To make your life easier, you could maybe have a whole selection of eyes with or without eye wear? That way, things like shades of colored glasses wouldn't have a problem with lining up with certain eyes. Then you only have to deal with eyes/glasses position with head, and not eyes vs glasses vs head. See my fourth. The eyes line up on the head nicely, but getting all three of them, eye-wear, eyes and face all at once seems like a lot of work. Of which you already have enough. You release things so quickly, I'm starting to get worried about you. Not really a problem with eyes or glasses on the face. Just the interaction between eyes and glasses themselves.(Are those John's?) (Put them on the round glasses. Who wore those? I forget) No problems with the mouths. (grey open one) Horns may or may not go well with hair. Better do more tests to find out. (Takes the two at the end) Tops may or may not interfere with the neck. I'm not sure what does that. See first and third. They work okay though. (Third option) Pants [or skirt if and when I tried] that I never saw, since the dress ate them. (PANTS) Coat that I never saw. Maybe the dress ate them too. (NEPETA COAT) Dresses.. Only work properly with females.(skip? Left it at first) Belts, if I'm not mistaken. Works fine as far as I can tell. (Thin black one). Scarves. Second scarf doesn't leave the white line, but first and third do. Maybe it's not the scarf? Works probably. (SKIP leave at pink belt) Shoes. Nothing wrong here. I can't really see though, since I can't wear pants. Or anything other than a dress below. (Running shoes) Hats may or may not work well with actual hair, since I BELIEVE only John, Jade, Jake and Jane have worn hats? I don't even know anymore. (Rumply head object) Symbol sometimes interferes with clothing. Certain articles of clothing may remove the symbol or displace it, such as suits and things. Maybe make them a bit smaller, or something. Other than that, they work as they should. (Atom symbol.)

BEHOLD.

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Okay, I am cursed with scarf-dress. Symbol worked fine here, although the neck thing is still there. I think you should leave out hats like this? They interfere with hair sometimes. Or maybe make certain hats only work with certain hair styles/horn styles? I don't know. LOOK SO DERP.

It's good to see that you made progress though. Singlehandedly being able to output content like this. Keep up the good work!

Thanks! And wow, great feedback! A lot of feedback deserves a large response:
1. Arrows: I totally see where you're coming from. It shouldn't be much trouble to have a full cycle, and if that doesn't work it's no trouble at all to grey out at the end of the line.
2. I feel a bit like SBURB wouldn't use words to make things straight-forward. I'll look into other ways to make it more clear though. (Which brings me around to the question of whether or not I should include Cherubs as a species. I'll get to that another time though.)
3. Using symbols for the sex selection is a great idea! I'll probably place them where shirt symbols ordinarily go.
4. I put the skip button on the hair menu because I thought I would give people the option to be bald. However, a bald troll's horns end up slightly detached from the head, so I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with that.
5. Making the eyes and eye-wear separate menus is actually easier than having different sprites for each eye/glasses combination. Keeping them in line is pretty easy too. No need to worry about my work load, I actually do far less than you would think. I only put in a good few hours of work a week really.
6. As far as the strange interference with the neck, I hadn't noticed it before now. It's because the head is overlapped by the rest of the body. Easy fix, that'll be gone next version.
7. Could you explain what you mean by dresses only working properly with females? And yes, it is the dresses that eat up other articles of clothing. I figured if somebody were to wear a dress and pants, they would wear the pants underneath. (I think jackets still go underneath dresses right now though, so I'll fix that.)
8. I honestly only remembered the add the symbol as an afterthought. I will definitely make sure it looks better with different kinds of tops.

[trulyElse]

4. I put the skip button on the hair menu because I thought I would give people the option to be bald. However, a bald troll's horns end up slightly detached from the head, so I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with that.

Maybe each hairsyle has two layers (one for the main shape, one part for where the horns are covered) and redo the horns to match to a bald head?

[Bearstronaut]

If you look closely at the dresses in my first attempt, you'll see that 1,3 and 5 all appear to be dudes. I think. They have a little piece jutting out at the left side, whereas 2 and 4 do not. I think it has something to do with the male and female options at the beginning, but I'm not really sure. How well it blends in also appears to depends on belt choice. Looking at my second set, ElDerp seems to have the thick sprite line just blend in, while number two of the second image (the one where John's glasses and Troll eyes do NOT mix well*) has a gap between the body and edge of dress. I wasn't sure if it had anything to do with gender.

Oh wait, upon further reflection, it looks like the belt choice and shirt choice affect how well the auto-dress fits in.
*I think some Troll eyes also jut out from the Shades, but they seem to work VERY well with Jane's glasses.

Is it just me, or do troll horns that sprout directly up feel... out of place on the right side of the sprite? Look at image two, 1 and 2. The horns feel out of place on the right side of the sprite. Our right.

[trulyElse]

Oh yeah, I've updated the furniture sheet to have more stuff, but I couldn't really get any from your need-list yet. Still, what I have linked should be useful for variation.

Anyway, here's a link. The two bottom images are the new ones.

Remember to click the gear in the top-right corner to get the full size image.

[shinyjiggly]

For some odd reason when I selected rose's eyes, I wound up with Aradia's eyes instead. Some other things sort of messed up as well.

[InvertedVoid]

Might I make a suggestion? For selecting eyes and glasses, it might work better if those two were selected at the same time, with a pair of selectors?
Like

<< Eyes >> << Glasses >>

Display of resulting eyes and glasses

Because eyes and glasses interact oddly in Homestuck. Like, the John and Jake glasses have rectangles which are sort of the frame of their glasses and sort of the edge of their eyes.
(and by the way, at least some of the troll eyes peek out from under Dave's shades.) If you had them go together, glasses like Dave's and Dirk's can just entirely eliminate the eyes layer, instead of trying to cover the eyes, which I don't think Dirk's would be able to do to troll eyes at all (and their glasses tend to be pretty mobile, to convey eye movement). And it's sort of difficult to design a character when you can't see how the glasses fit over the eyes. The animation of eyes might change depending on the glasses they're wearing (eyes like John's would move differently in different glasses?) Everything else works relatively independently I think.

I guess I'm not entirely sure what I'm saying????? Just do whatever you think is best.


I've also noticed that it gives out the wrong parts sometimes, but I can't figure out under what circumstances. It seems to be especially prevalent with eyes and dresses. Hats and horns do not go well together, but I think that was already known? Trolls are gonna need their little holes in their hats if they want to wear them.

[greyscaleQuestioner]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I haven't really posted in the last week because there hasn't been a lot to say. I will just remind people that the sprite list in the OP is completely up-to-date. I would like to get it done as soon as possible so that I can post a new, more fun sprite list. I'm taking down the wizard statue and the "Unknown Device," because neither of those have been seen in their entirety in the comic. I might move them to the next list, and ask that spriters be creative in fleshing out the unseen parts of these.
I still don't have a set release date for the SBURB Machines Demo, but my best guess is that I'll put it up sometime around the first of November.

Some general replies to the Character Creator feedback:

show spoiler

hide spoiler

There are two glitches with troll horns. One is that they don't quite touch a bald head, and the other is that all of the different horns are generated in the same place on the head, when they should be in different places. Kanaya's horns should be approximately where all horns are now, and Feferi's horns should be closer to the top of the head. I can fix both of these glitches by the time the next version of the Creator is released.

The female figure is slightly slimmer than the male figure. As such, the clothes drawn to fit the female figure won't quite fit the male properly. The only proper solution to this that I can see is to edit all of the female clothing so that it fits the male form (in effect creating two versions of each article of clothing, one for each sex). I can do this for the limited clothing options presented in the current version of the Creator, but I may ask spriters to do this with the rest of the clothing when I put up the next sprite list (when this happens will again depend on when the current sprite list is completed).

There have been some issues with troll eyes not going well with eyewear, and that the eyes/eyewear menus being confusing when they are so far apart. What I'm going to do, as was suggested in one of the feedback comments, is put the eyes menu next to the eyewear menu, similar to the way the left horn menu is next to the right horn menu. As for troll eyes not matching well with eyewear, I may have to have separate eyewear options for trolls and humans, the same way I already have separate eye options.

I've also heard that sometimes clicking on one option will result with another. If I could get specific examples of this, they can be fixed much faster and more easily.

Hats and horns don't always go well together. I think the best way to remedy that is to put the left horn (left from the point of view of the player, not the character) on top of the hat, and the right horn beneath it.

And actual replies:

show spoiler

hide spoiler

Oh yeah, I've updated the furniture sheet to have more stuff, but I couldn't really get any from your need-list yet. Still, what I have linked should be useful for variation.

Anyway, here's a link. The two bottom images are the new ones.

Remember to click the gear in the top-right corner to get the full size image.

Thanks!

[darkDetective]

Just in case anyone other than shinyjiggly (Hi!) remembers me, I am assisting gQ on this project. One of the presiding issues with the death of my project was that I did not actually own the forum it was on. The member that did deleted it, along with all my notes and material and the contact information for my entire team. So yeah.

But I am more than willing to give gQ my notes, as I do want to see this game come to fruition at some point!

[InvertedVoid]

You don't remember me , but I remember you (quite the memorable avatar you have there). I lurked in that thread for a little while just as it was dying off.
Plan "rise from the ashes like Pheonix, Arizona (by which I mean the city burned down and then they built a new one from scratch)" seems to have worked successfully?
(that was you, right? I'm not mistaken?)

[Heroguy]

This looks cool. I'm no programmer or artist, just a writer, and I already have a full plate as it is, so I'm afraid I can't help. All the same,
ROCK
ON.

[darkDetective]

"rise from the ashes like Pheonix, Arizona (by which I mean the city burned down and then they built a new one from scratch)"

I don't think so...?

But yea, the thread died because we moved to a forum, and the forum got deleted because the second in command was a hot head.

[shinyjiggly]

I'm glad that you're putting your prior project experience to good use DD. GQ needs all the assistance that she can get.
Also, my spriting skills, while still vastly inferior to anything, have gotten considerably better over the past year. If you guys need any custom sprites, feel free to drop me a PM.