Riddles

[Saposhiente]

Ah, yes, that is another way to get the second element. Well done. (Please put your solution in a spoiler).
My solution:

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"Is at least one of the following statements true: 'This statement is false.' or 'The left path is the correct path.'?"

[TBFProgrammer]

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Problem, an arbitrary answer being answered as yes or no is not actually truthful, leading to you never receiving an answer from the truth-teller.

Sapo, that doesn't actually work either, the first statement is always not true, so you're back to simply asking whether it is true that the one path is safe.

[Saposhiente]

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You don't understand. "never receiving an answer from the truth-teller." Not receiving an answer is the third answer. It's how you get 3 bits of information out of two 1-bit questions. The guards say one of yes, no, or nothing.
"This statement is false." It's saying that it's false about being false. Therefore it's saying that it's true... that it's false... that it's false... implying that it's true about being false about being false meaning it's true that it's false that it's false......
It is neither true nor false. It's a contradiction. "This sentence is false. Was the last sentence true?" will be answered by neither the truth teller nor the liar. The random guard, however, will just say whatever. Extrapolate. You'll find that my answer and Ouroboros's are equivalent, and do indeed work. There are six possible configurations of which guard is sleeping and which path is correct; just go through each.

[Ouroboros]

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That depends on your interpretation. In this case, as soon as an answer IS given, that answer becomes truthful.

Sapo's answer works because the answer to the question is "yes" if the left path is correct, but it cannot be evaluated if the left path is not the correct path, since "this statement is false" is neither clearly true nor false (Although it could still receive an answer of "no" in that case if the guard choose to interpret it as having a truth-value of mu, and thus not being true, although I'm not an expert on this kind of logic, so I might be wrong). I think that's how it works anyway.

It still needs a double negation in there though, since if the left path leads to death then the liar might still answer "yes".

...and apparently I've been ninja'd again. I really need to type these things out faster.

[Saposhiente]

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"Is the answer to this question [no]?" @ liar: He's going for the opposite of the truth, not the opposite of what he says. If he says yes, that implies that the correct answer is no, which implies that since the answer is no the correct answer is yes, which means he's done it wrong. I almost made this mistake. Your original question is actually correct; your new one has the problem you thought your old one had.

[TBFProgrammer]

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You don't understand. "never receiving an answer from the truth-teller." Not receiving an answer is the third answer. It's how you get 3 bits of information out of two 1-bit questions. The guards say one of yes, no, or nothing.
"This statement is false." It's saying that it's false about being false. Therefore it's saying that it's true... that it's false... that it's false... implying that it's true about being false about being false meaning it's true that it's false that it's false......
It is neither true nor false. It's a contradiction. "This sentence is false. Was the last sentence true?" will be answered by neither the truth teller nor the liar. The random guard, however, will just say whatever. Extrapolate. You'll find that my answer and Ouroboros's are equivalent, and do indeed work. There are six possible configurations of which guard is sleeping and which path is correct; just go through each.

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Sapo, I understand perfectly. Ouroboros' question is supposed to work by having a conflicting value in one case and an answer in the other. The problem is that the opposing answer to the conflicting value will always be arbitrary, which makes neither answer truly represent the truth and thus the truth teller cannot answer the question, ever. In endeavoring to acquire the third answer, you have removed the other two.

The contradiction in yours is simply never true, making it reduce out. It doesn't actually add anything. You don't understand the way contradiction and arbitrary values intersect with boolean logic, and it is this lack of understanding which inspired this impossible riddle.

Simply put, for Ouroboros, the cases are as such for truth and flip:
Path chosen is safe: Arbitrary, neither yes nor no accurately answers the question, so neither is true and Truth does not answer.
Path chosen is unsafe: Conflicting, neither yes nor no validly answers the question, so neither is true and Truth does not answer.

For yours:
Truth, path is death: No
Truth, path is safe: Yes
Liar, path is death: Yes
Liar, path is safe: No

[Saposhiente]

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Assume "This statement is false" is true. That would imply that the statement is indeed false, therefore, by contradiction, the statement is not true. Assume "This statement is false" is false. That would imply that the statement is actually true, therefore, by contradiction, the statement is not false. Therefore, the statement is neither true nor false. It is not simply false.
The truth teller only tells true things. He is not required to tell the whole truth (indeed, he is not allowed to do this for non-yes/no questions), only the truth. "Is the answer to this question yes?" could be answered by either yes or no by the truth teller; his behavior is unspecified, however, he will choose one and answer with it.

[TBFProgrammer]

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Assume "This statement is false" is true. That would imply that the statement is indeed false, therefore, by contradiction, the statement is not true. Assume "This statement is false" is false. That would imply that the statement is actually true, therefore, by contradiction, the statement is not false. Therefore, the statement is neither true nor false. It is not simply false.

The truth teller only tells true things. He is not required to tell the whole truth (indeed, he is not allowed to do this for non-yes/no questions), only the truth. "Is the answer to this question yes?" could be answered by either yes or no by the truth teller; his behavior is unspecified, however, he will choose one and answer with it.

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Part one, while it is not simply false, the question only cares about whether it is true. It isn't.

Part two, this particular behavior is not specified in the riddle. As such, the answerer cannot rely on the truth teller to do so. The riddle requires a guarantee, which is not met by betting on the behavior of the truth teller. Further, it is not simply that he is not telling the whole truth. To state yes or no would be to lie in that it is not actually accurate to assign the value. By doing so, he's claiming there is a definitive value, which is a lie.

You disallowed any leeway in answering the riddle, by fiat. Your own answer doesn't work. The answer given requires extra specifications that were not included in the riddle. What you have asked is not a riddle, instead you have asked us to read your mind (an exercise that would have been pointless anyways).

[Saposhiente]

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But NOR is the same as AND-NOT, so saying "No" to my question would imply that both statements are false, when "This statement is false" has unknowable truth. For what you call being made to mind-read, all you're doing is arguing over the semantics of logic itself; the riddle ends when you figure out to use contradiction (the second element) to force the truth teller and liar not to answer (the first element). The rest is simple; I could probably construct an answer that would fit your constrained versions of logic, but it'd be a waste of my time. If it's so impossible, why were Ouroboros and A Rainy Knight (on GITP) able to solve it?

I'm done here.

[TBFProgrammer]

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Ah, the false dilemma or false dichotomy. Sapo, your whole premise is built on the fact that there is more than true and false, yet you equate not true to false in order to make your answer function.

Ouroboros' solution does not work without further constraints that are not present in the riddle. Nor can these constraints be added without essentially stating the solution as part of the riddle. It these necessary constraints you attempt to dismiss as mere semantics.

[causticlyOptimitious]

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So wait, creating a potentially unanswerable question is less meta than getting the guards to point? o.6

[Saposhiente]

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The guards do not do anything outside of the riddle, like pointing. This is just a question that sometimes has no right answer.

[Limanya]

ugh this is getting annoying

can someone post a new riddle

[Cetus Amicus]

When is a croquet mallet like a billy club?

[causticlyOptimitious]

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Still sounds like it'd get ya stabbed to me. Meh.

@Cetus: Whenever it wants! ...o wait....

[Cetus Amicus]

@Cetus: Whenever it wants! ...o wait....

Close!

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Whenever you want it to be.

[A Killer Cuppa Tea]

What that doesn't work at all.

The liar doesn't stop lying just because there is a paradox. A lie is, after all, the absence of truth. One cannot give a TRUE answer to such a paradox but one can still lie.

[anacreon]

what this question becomes with that answer is 2 guys that can give 3 responses one that lies and the other that tells the truth with the responses yes, no, or 'no response'
and 1 guy that gives only yes or no chosen at random.

as tea said the liar can still answer the paradox and either way he answers he still maintains that he is lieing since the paradox has no answer which pretty much turns the liar into another coin flip answering guy.

A liar says things that are simply not true, that includes false statements as well as statements that are neither true or false. so him saying answering the statement 'this statement is false' falls under the neither true or false area so he can answer it either way and still be a liar.

also since there is a 3rd hidden response what is stopping the liar from giving that reponse instead of a simple yes/no? he is still lieing if he uses the 3rd response no matter what the question is.

also

The guards aren't going to respond with anything other than yes or no. You can ask non-yes-or-no questions, but it'd be a waste of your time.
TBF, I can assure you, it is indeed possible. It is not something you have overlooked; more something you have not seen.
Giving vague answers is fun.

That means they have to give yes or no as a response a non-answer isnt an option.

[Dewgale]

That means they have to give yes or no as a response a non-answer isnt an option.

Wrong, since a non-answer is by its very definition not a response. Therefore, they can give it.

This version of the riddle is grossly overcomplicated. The original is far simpler.

"You come to a fork in the road. One leads to freedom, and the other to certain death. You don't know which is which. At the crossroads are two brothers. One will only tell the truth, and the other will only lie. You can only ask one question, and to only one of them. How can you find out which path is correct?"

[chibi2ki]

Possibly reviving this thread if it's still alive...

My riddle:

Coordinates: 10x20
Coordinates: 16x24, Recieved gunpowder
Coordinates: 16x24, Called shop
Coordinates: 15x24, Truck arrives
Coordinates: 15x24, Gunpowder is lessened and given to shopkeeper.
Coordinates: 17x23, Talked to shopkeeper's assistant. Assistant asks for more gunpowder. Gives more gunpowder.
Coordinates: 18x27, Arrives at flower shop. Shopkeeper's assistant is speaking to florist. Florist asks for gunpowder. Gunpowder given. As you exit you overheard the shopkeeper's assistant begging for the gunpowder you gave to the florist.
Coordinates: 27x27, Cafe. SA there too, waiter asks for gunpowder. You give him the last bit. As you exit, you here nothing but the customers eating and... snickering?
Coordinates: 17x23, Hears shopkeeper chanting.

Analyze the events of the shopkeeper's plot. Have fun!