The Official MSPA Shipping Discussion Thread: Teash me ALL the quadrans.

[Greyscale]

If I'm wrong, the comic will eventually tell me so.

The comic can't tell you that you're wrong because then it would have to address something which was never in it in the first place, which is not its responsibility! You don't tell a story by addressing every single thing that's not happening at a given moment! That's absurd!
We already had a big exposition from Aranea about how Terezi caused her own problems with her powers and she didn't mention anything about the powers themselves being wrong on its own, so how isn't that enough for you?

But if we wait and see

I can see you trying to apply what I said back to me, but you're doing it in a wrong context.
I said that specifically about aspects of the comic that are confusing but are still to be shown like the end of a character arc, not about the disproving of baseless speculation that the comic gives you no reason to believe in the first place. Those are completely different things!

[PrincessOfSwords]

Listen, I don't agree with colwag on much. Rose Kanaya, Dave Jade, Dave in general....

But I do agree about ending this discussion at the moment. I don't see any point in arguing with his opinions further. It will only cause us all headaches. Opinions are opinions.

[BlackholePA]

The awkward moment when you are on a mobile device and won't be able to create a new thread for a good 18 hours.

And I called dibs and everything.

Wait

But who will decide on the canon-relevant thread titles!?

[Conspicuous]

Why do we even have thread-dibs in the first place?

Sounds like it just encourages unnecessary behaviour.

[The Illusive Man]

But who will decide on the canon-relevant thread titles!?

How about "All Ships To Port; Everything's Canon"?

'Cause otherwise it will cause a shitfest.

Also colwag's not wrong.

And yes I probably need a second opinion, but hopefully it doesn't come with sass about my dislike of KarkatTerezi (which I don't let get in the way of "this can happen and while I'd be suitably outraged, I'd try to keep a smile and maybe schedule an appointment with my Protoss Mothership's nearest Burger King to cheer me up") and my overall preference of DaveTerezi. :V

[BlackholePA]

I am protective of my thread baby.

I wish to love it and cherish it forever.

This will be the most fulfilling thing I will ever do with my life.

Also, on Karkat Terezi? Pfft. Karkat's too much of a sap.

[colwag]

The comic can't tell you that you're wrong because then it would have to address something which was never in it in the first place, which is not its responsibility! You don't tell a story by addressing every single thing that's not happening at a given moment! That's absurd!

At which point the issue will be settled when the comic ends and said subject I am concerned with never comes up.

Then I'd have no choice to go "well I guess that was never a thing, then" and the issue would be solved forever.

I think it's safe to say that if Rose's powers do not backstab her by the end of the comic, then there's no real reason to believe they ever would have backstabbed her in the first place! Bam. Issue: Settled.

We already had a big exposition from Aranea about how Terezi caused her own problems with her powers and she didn't mention anything about the powers themselves being wrong on its own, so how isn't that enough for you?

So, where did Aranea get her information from? Was it her powers? Oh, it had to do with her powers, doesn't it? Of course the powers are going to protect themselves!

And blah blah Aranea is Mindfang in another universe capable of deception blah blah.

Not that I disagree with her blame, but that doesn't mean that Terezi's powers can't be a factor as well.

(But if the comic ends without them being betrayed by it directly, then the issue will be settled.)

I can see you trying to apply what I said back to me, but you're doing it in a wrong context.
I said that specifically about aspects of the comic that are confusing but are still to be shown like the end of a character arc, not about the disproving of baseless speculation that the comic gives you no reason to believe in the first place. Those are completely different things!

I disagree with the "no reason to believe in the first place" line, as there was plenty of speculation by others over what hand fate/paradox space has over the players, and Skaia's own motivations. These issues are not fully resolved yet, and eventually, they will be.

And when that happens, we'll have a much clearer idea of these issues, won't we?

[Atomic Kitty]

Y'know, I think colwag is p cool and all, but he's kinda hella wrong much of the time.

:|

cool

._.

cool

|:

cool

.-.

cool

If he keeps bringing his issues with characters, he's still batting the thread while it's hot, does he ?

[colwag]

If he keeps bringing his issues with characters, he's still batting the thread while it's hot, does he ?

Yes, but coolwag is a better pun. And that is what really matters.

[Greyscale]

At which point the issue will be settled when the comic ends and said subject I am concerned with never comes up.

Then I'd have no choice to go "well I guess that was never a thing, then" and the issue would be solved forever.

That's unfair to everyone else that you force to discuss the issue with.
They're basically arguing against your fanfiction.
That's just not fair for anyone.

So, where did Aranea get her information from? Was it her powers? Oh, it had to do with her powers, doesn't it? Of course the powers are going to protect themselves!

No it's because she's a million year old ghost who has a lot of experience gathering information from as many memories as possible, driven by her natural curiosity.

Not that I disagree with her blame, but that doesn't mean that Terezi's powers can't be a factor as well.

There's no reason to believe it is. You have no reason to insist that it is. It's unfair of you to insist that it is when you have no basis on doing so, and therefore, no basis for anyone to provide counterevidence for.

You're effectively cheating by making an argument where a counterargument is impossible because there's no argument to counter in the first place.

I'm almost certain that's considered a logical fallacy, actually.

I disagree with the "no reason to believe in the first place" line, as there was plenty of speculation by others over what hand fate/paradox space has over the players, and Skaia's own motivations.

Skaia has been explicitly said to not have its own motivations "Beyond Which It Knows To Be Manifest Already".
And there's nothing in the comic that suggests that the powers IS Skaia.
Seer visions aren't fed to them like some sort of video feed. Seer powers is "comprehensive knowledge of an aspect", and the visions are just conclusions that are the result of that knowledge. It's not like Skaian clouds. It's the conclusions made by comprehensive knowledge. So what you're saying about Skaia having control over that makes no sense in the first place. Seers have like, a complete encyclopedia about aspect in their brain, and it's so good that they can calculate things based on that knowledge, and those calculations are so effective that the knowledge gained can be seen as a vision. Unless you want to say that all of the characters are wrong by saying Seer powers have anything to do with comprehensive knowledge.
And at that point, you're arguing backwards FROM your conclusion! Which is another logical fallacy.

[colwag]

That's unfair to everyone else that you force to discuss the issue with.
They're basically arguing against your fanfiction.
That's just not fair for anyone.

Which is how I feel about a lot of other theories and interpretations of subtext.

There. We agree. Now, we can continue to chat for funsies, or we can drop this and wait for the comic to end because seriously that is a stupid argument to make about any issues whatsoever.

It's not fair, nor is it very fun to those involved.

[The Illusive Man]

You're effectively cheating by making an argument where a counterargument is impossible because there's no argument to counter in the first place.

I'm almost certain that's considered a logical fallacy, actually.

Wait, Lord English's Advocate (replacing Devil's Advocate with a more MSPAppropriate term) is a logical fallcy? :V

Skaia has been explicitly said to not have its own motivations "Beyond Which It Knows To Be Manifest Already".
And there's nothing in the comic that suggests that the powers IS Skaia.

Where doing it man
Where making this happen

is all that Skaia is saying. Seer visions are fed from their own actions. :V

[Greyscale]

Wait, Lord English's Advocate (replacing Devil's Advocate with a more MSPAppropriate term) is a logical fallcy? :V

Stop.

Stop stop stop stop stop.

First of all, while a Devil's Advocate is someone who disagrees for the sake of disagreeing, there is still such a thing called an ineffective Devil's Advocate. A Devil's Advocate who argues poorly is worse than no Devil's Advocate at all. When a Devil's Advocate argues, they have a responsibility to argue well, otherwise they don't serve their purpose (which is to expose weaknesses in a person's opinion, not to bring up random bullshit for the sake of it), they're just being argumentative jackasses. You don't use "Devil's Advocate" to excuse behavior. Just. Don't. Do that.

Second of all, no, I looked it up, the fallacy is "appealing to ignorance", or in other words, the misappropriation of the burden of proof. Read up on it if you're so unfamiliar with it that you couldn't recognize it from the way I tried to describe it.

Which is how I feel about a lot of other theories and interpretations of subtext.

Are you accusing me of ever having misplaced the burden of proof by bringing up an argument for which there is no evidence?
Please tell me when I have ever done that.

[colwag]

Second of all, no, I looked it up, the fallacy is "appealing to ignorance", or in other words, the misappropriation of the burden of proof. Read up on it if you're so unfamiliar with it that you couldn't recognize it from the way I tried to describe it.

I just feel that all discussions that lead to "Well, stop talking about it, and just wait and see" ends up doing that!

I mean yeah, there's probably a right and wrong answer for most of the issues we have with the comic and our interpretations with it, but just dropping it and waiting to see what happens is not a very effective way to discuss them at all, honestly.

But, we've filled this thread enough. Onwards, to thread two!

Eventually.

[Greyscale]

I just feel that all discussions that lead to "Well, stop talking about it, and just wait and see" ends up doing that!

That's not what I said, jesus christ, why do you keep bringing that up in the weirdest contexts.
I just said that if the whole point of the discussion is that "I don't know how the story will go I am so bothered by this", then the solution is to wait for the story to show you! You don't need to know the story before the story happens!
That has nothing to do with any other discussion about understanding the story as it is so far, so why do you keep bringing it up in those contexts at all?

[Conspicuous]

Greyscale, I'm going to ask you to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that you're arguing pointlessly and accomplishing nothing.

Just let it go, man.

[The Illusive Man]

Oh look, here's the next thread! I took the time to make it to do BlackromPA a favour! Everyone glubbin' enjoy it whilst we cease the prattle. :V

[Greyscale]

Greyscale, I'm going to ask you to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that you're arguing pointlessly and accomplishing nothing.

There's nothing pointless about elaborating on my own words, especially when someone else is so grossly misrepresenting them and then trying to throw them back at me.

If you can't defend your own words then what are you even doing saying them in the first place?

[superdark33]

I wonder what Cheruv romance is.....


but i do guess its 15 types of relationship, each is paired with another except 8, just like the felt.

[OverlordJ]

I wonder what Cheruv romance is.....


but i do guess its 15 types of relationship, each is paired with another except 8, just like the felt.

There's a new thread already, go post there: http://mspaforums.com/showthread.php...-Deploy-At-Wil

[Gold Valley Kanaya 金谷]

Oh yeah... This is the shipping thread. Uh.
Which one are and which one are ?

they are all red feelings. Except for the obvious moriallegiances wich are the rest.

[OverlordJ]

they are all red feelings. Except for the obvious moriallegiances wich are the rest.

Please read the post above yours.

[Range]

I don't know about anyone else, but the one ship I really dislike is Andrew/Vriska. I'm okay with anything else though.

[OverlordJ]

I don't know about anyone else, but the one ship I really dislike is Andrew/Vriska. I'm okay with anything else though.

EVERYBODY, LISTEN! THERE'S ALREADY A NEW THREAD! GO THERE INSTEAD!

LINK: http://mspaforums.com/showthread.php...-Deploy-At-Wil

Seriously, we need to get this thread locked.